Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

ROB- that is a vey moving email thank you so much for passing it on

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;298662]I have been hearing some people on CNN saying that this tragedy was part of our National preception off violence because of TV and video games. They are saying that we need to change what we do, what we watch, and what we play. I am of the firm belief that this horrific incident has nothing to do with American culture and has more to do with a person committing a horrible and unforseeable act. My prayers and thoughts are with all families, students, and friends of those affected by this tragedy.[/quote]

That's ridiculous. If TV and games had that much of an influence on society, these crimes would be commonplace, not a horrifying exception. Someone with a mental issue may be unable to distinguish reality from a virtual "killing", but you can't blame the game or TV show. I'm sure there have been psychotic people who have gotten a murder idea from a book before, so should be ban books too?

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;298670]Not that anyone has, but how can anyone blame American culture for this tragedy when the kid was a resident alien from South Korea? I highly doubt that American culture turned this kid overnight from a "normal" one into a mass murderer.
[/quote]

Yes, if he was so appalled by our culture, he would not have come here to take advantage of our education system.

Has anyone considered though, that if he did this because he hated America, that possibly the professors at the school he shot up actually put the propoganda in his head? College professors are being well-known for preaching political propaganda instead of the actual class subject and MOST of them are anti-American.

I'm not blaming anyone else but him for his cowardly acts of violence, there is NO justification for it...but I am hearing a lot about him doing this because of some notes he wrote about hating America or our culture.
[url=http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048108&page=1]ABC News: Killer's Note: 'You Caused Me to Do This'[/url]

More updates: he was on a student visa AND his handgun had the serial numbers filed off...no gun control would've stopped him from obtaining a black market gun illegally without proper legal identification.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

Buster, I just deleted my post that you quoted since he has apparently been in the States since the age of 9.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Buster;298678]More updates: he was on a student visa AND his handgun had the serial numbers filed off...no gun control would've stopped him from obtaining a black market gun illegally without proper legal identification.[/QUOTE]

I'm trying to avoid all debate right now, but didn't the police find a receipt for the purchase of the 9mm in his backpack? If so, that suggests he bought the guns legally.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

That e-mail talking about forgiveness is noble and is a great way to cope with the losses. We SHOULD have a forgiving heart like God intends. However, it is tough to believe the guy just "snapped". This was obviously planned out. He had several weapons, the first bought March 13, filed the serial numbers off, chained some doors shut ahead of time so students could not escape, killed a couple, went back to his room and reloaded and packed a backpack with knives and more ammo and proceded to do some more human hunting. He also wrote and left notes explaining his actions.

He wasn't instantly pushed to these actions by someone's words or actions, he planned it out and thought about it long enough to decide it was what he really wanted to do. It would be somewhat easier to forgive and feel sympathy if he was for instance a bus driver who lost his temper and crashed...but this was a cold, calculating killer who knew EXACTLY what he was doing. If he planned it out while on some bad medication or something, he's probably realize something's not right when he goes to do the shooting. This wasn't a plan thrown together in a single morning.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;298683]I'm trying to avoid all debate right now, but didn't the police find a receipt for the purchase of the 9mm in his backpack? If so, that suggests he bought the guns legally.[/quote]

If that's the case, he forged some ID somewhere. He's not a legal permanent resident of VA, which is a requirement for gun purchases.

Also, why would be file off serial numbers if everything was legal and legit, especially if he's going to kill himself anyways?

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Buster;298685]If that's the case, he forged some ID somewhere. He's not a legal permanent resident of VA, which is a requirement for gun purchases.

Also, why would be file off serial numbers if everything was legal and legit, especially if he's going to kill himself anyways?[/QUOTE]The article that I just read, the one you posted, said that he was legally allowed to buy the guns in VA because he was a permanent resident.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

Weird twist: he had "ISMAIL X" written in red ink on his arm.

Here's what I could find about the meaning: "The reference may be to a passage in the Koran referring to Abraham's destruction of pagan idols; in some accounts, he uses an ax to do so."

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;298691]The article that I just read, the one you posted, said that he was legally allowed to buy the guns in VA because he was a permanent resident.[/quote]

If that's the case, maybe they should consider changing their Commonwealth law from "resident" to "citizen".

Non-citizens of the United States have no protections under the Constitution and Bill of Rights, including the 1st and 2nd Amendments.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=Buster;298684]That e-mail talking about forgiveness is noble and is a great way to cope with the losses. We SHOULD have a forgiving heart like God intends. However, it is tough to believe the guy just "snapped". This was obviously planned out. He had several weapons, the first bought March 13, filed the serial numbers off, chained some doors shut ahead of time so students could not escape, killed a couple, went back to his room and reloaded and packed a backpack with knives and more ammo and proceded to do some more human hunting. He also wrote and left notes explaining his actions.

He wasn't instantly pushed to these actions by someone's words or actions, he planned it out and thought about it long enough to decide it was what he really wanted to do. It would be somewhat easier to forgive and feel sympathy if he was for instance a bus driver who lost his temper and crashed...but this was a cold, calculating killer who knew EXACTLY what he was doing. If he planned it out while on some bad medication or something, he's probably realize something's not right when he goes to do the shooting. This wasn't a plan thrown together in a single morning.[/quote]
I don't really care what his motives were. He obviously had issues, and anyone who is out there enough to do something like this isn't reasonable.

I don't see what your rant is accomplishing, other than really saying the obvious. He killed a lot of people, and meant to do it. We know. I sympathize with everyone involved, including the killer. Whatever twisted ideals was going on in his head, it doesn't provide reason or excuse for his actions. This isn't a product of "propaganda". This isn't a result of gun control laws.

It's a tragedy, and should be reflected upon. I don't really know if there is much of anything to gain from this as a society.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Buster;298693]Non-citizens of the United States have no protections under the Constitution and Bill of Rights, including the 1st and 2nd Amendments.[/QUOTE]

For better or worse, they actually do have protections under the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;298700]For better or worse, they actually do have protections under the Constitution and Bill of Rights.[/quote]

Thanks to the ACLU and a lot of lawyers, yes they do...heck, even members of al Qaeda that are prisoners of war are being treated like citizens by some people...but they should not, morally OR legally according to our founding documents.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=Buster;298667]That's ridiculous. If TV and games had that much of an influence on society, these crimes would be commonplace, not a horrifying exception. Someone with a mental issue may be unable to distinguish reality from a virtual "killing", but you can't blame the game or TV show. I'm sure there have been psychotic people who have gotten a murder idea from a book before, so should be ban books too?[/quote]

There is only one thing that made this kid do what he did, and it's mental illness... and I feel so very sorry for the victims.

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

If there are no objections, maybe we should hold off on the debates. I think there are some interesting issues (see the previous posts, including mine), but right now, maybe we should just pause since gun control laws etc. seem so irrelevant in light of the sheer tragedy of the situation.