Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;989037]Bill Parcells had a good segment on the Read Option offense and he basically said it won't work long in the NFL because teams next year will focus on punishing the QB everytime it's ran. Jason Taylor basically said the same today on ESPN.[/quote]

My question is what was stopping them from doing that this year then?

You can't just give up 15 yard roughing penalties all day.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;989098]My question is what was stopping them from doing that this year then?

You can't just give up 15 yard roughing penalties all day.[/quote]


It won't be a roughing penalty because he's considered a runner.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=NC_Skins;989101]It won't be a roughing penalty because he's considered a runner.[/quote]not when he puts his arms up

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/27/robert-griffin-iii-now-i-know-when-its-legal-for-defenses-to-hit-me/]Robert Griffin III: Now I know when it’s legal for defenses to hit me | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;989051]Parcells and Taylor are stupid
1) you cant punish a QB if you cant catch him when he runs
2) you cant punish a QB if he slides and/or runs out of bounds to avoid contact, unless you want a flag
3) I noticed Wilson and Kaepernick doing the same thing RGIII does - after handing the ball off to the RB, when defenders are near, they quickly lift their hands up to show defenders they dont have the ball - if theyre touched, its 15 yards.

Unless the rules change, anything defenses do to try to "punish" QBs running the option will result in first downs for the offense.[/quote]

This. "Old school" football might have allowed that method of stopping it, but now you can't take cheap shots just because the qb faked a handoff. Which is another part of it, and why the stretch option should be stricken from our playbook, if Griffin (or any qb) starts running and at the last second pitches it, he ought to be fair game for a hit, but the way the zone read option is being used, the qb isn't running with the ball unless a clear lane opens to him. He may:
** pass (protected by rules)
** handoff(protected as soon as he throws his hands up and clears that he doesn't have it),
or
**run (where he can get slammed but only should run if a defender isn't barreling down on him)

Taylor and Parcells just aren't looking at it in the right context. A lot of opponents of it aren't.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=NC_Skins;989101]It won't be a roughing penalty because he's considered a runner.[/quote]

It's a penalty if he doesn't have the ball.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;989105]It's a penalty if he doesn't have the ball.[/quote]

The problem is that he's carrying out the fakes and the defense doesn't know he doesn't have the ball. They aren't going to penalize the defense on this. They didn't the whole season.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=NC_Skins;989110]The problem is that he's carrying out the fakes and the defense doesn't know he doesn't have the ball. They aren't going to penalize the defense on this. They didn't the whole season.[/quote]yes[quote=los panda;989102]not when he puts his arms up

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/27/robert-griffin-iii-now-i-know-when-its-legal-for-defenses-to-hit-me/]Robert Griffin III: Now I know when it’s legal for defenses to hit me | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;989098]My question is what was stopping them from doing that this year then?

You can't just give up 15 yard roughing penalties all day.[/quote]

How many times in the Dallas game did D.Ware have a clear, clean shot at RGIII and didn't take it?

If the Taylor/Parcells method is right, Ryan should have instructed Ware to just flatten Griffin every play and let others worry about Morris. I can think of only 3 reasons he didn't do so: (1) Ryan knew it was illegal to do so; (2) Ryan is too stupid to figure this out; (3) Ryan is too classy to try a borderline legal tactic that might cause injury to an opposing player.

Okay, so two reasons.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

In this day and age where a cheap shot 15 penalty can also result in a fine later on in the week from the league office and a possible ejection, it maybe easy to say "just go ahead and hit the guy anyway", but the next question is "Who is paying my fine when I do?"

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

I'm with Matty on this one. Why is everyone coming up with such easy solutions, but not a single team has been able to implement it this year?

The best way I've seen to stop the Zone option read is to play disciplined football even if the running back is getting 4 yards a pop. Stick with your assignments, get burned a little bit on the run inside, don't give up the huge 20+ yard plays on the outside.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=NC_Skins;989110]The problem is that he's carrying out the fakes and the defense doesn't know he doesn't have the ball. They aren't going to penalize the defense on this. They didn't the whole season.[/quote]

youre describing the RGIII pre-concusssion. Post-concussion, RGIII started turning towards defenders while holding his hands up to make it clear he doesnt have the ball - if they still hit him, they get flagged. Wilson and Kaepernick picked up on it and do the same thing. Its almost comical to watch. These QBs completely fool defenders (and even the cameraman) and make them think they have the ball, the defenders come in as if theyre going to get a sack/tackle, and then the QBs show empty hands in the defenders face. I view it as a fun/legal/necessary form of taunting.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

I think the d-coordinators will eventually just tell the DE to go straight for the QB, and ignore the RB and the fake.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=skinsfan69;989136]I think the d-coordinators will eventually just tell the DE to go straight for the QB, and ignore the RB and the fake.[/quote]

You're basically taking the DE out of the play then, which is what the offense wants. How is that going to stop anything? The QB would just hand it off all day and gash the D.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

I'm pretty surprised to hear such simple-minded response from someone like Parcells...or a player like Taylor.

I was expecting them to say things like "teams will look for DEs with speed" or "teams will be using a DB as a spy more often". You know, more football talk rather than a simple/stupid "just hit the QB" answer.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;989098]My question is what was stopping them from doing that this year then?

You can't just give up 15 yard roughing penalties all day.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Ruhskins;989157]I'm pretty surprised to hear such simple-minded response from someone like Parcells...or a player like Taylor.

I was expecting them to say things like "teams will look for DEs with speed" or "teams using a DB as a spy more often". [B]You know, more football talk rather than a simple/stupid "just hit the QB" answer[/B].[/quote]

I've seen other so called experts saying the same thing. I just keep coming back to so why didn't anyone use this so called tactic this year??

[QUOTE=Mattyk;989160]I've seen other so called experts saying the same thing. I just keep coming back to so why didn't anyone use this so called tactic this year??[/QUOTE]

Apparently the launch date for stopping the impossible is the 2013 season. They are just hyping it up. Lol.

I just cant imagine any of the DC's that got burned this year by the read option saying "oh my God I figured it out, next year when teams do that were just going to hit the qb everytime no matter what!"
Its actually absurd.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;989140]You're basically taking the DE out of the play then, which is what the offense wants. How is that going to stop anything? The QB would just hand it off all day and gash the D.[/quote]

That's true. But we all know how sensitive everyone will be when QB's start getting hit.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=punch it in;989163]I just cant imagine any of the DC's that got burned this year by the read option saying "oh my God I figured it out, next year when teams do that were just going to hit the qb everytime no matter what!"
Its actually absurd.[/quote]

Only tactic they got is to try and scare RG3 and other mobile QB's. Actually if they send someone after the QB intentionally every time, the read option will work even better for guys like Morris. So I say bring it! It wont work against us.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

Everyone that runs it has copied the Skins in the fact that they started bringing the h-back round as a lead blocker yet crossing the face of the DE or OLB and continuing on to the second level. Kudos to Kyle on that first id ever seen of its kind.That is an absolute nightmare for a DC to coach that up.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

The read option has been around for many many years. Today it's just run out of a mini shotgun instead of under center. Back when I played it was real simple, the DE was to hit the crap out of the QB as hard as he could so I'm not surprised at what Taylor and Parcells said. Teams are not going to draft smaller faster DE's just to stop a play.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;989098]My question is what was stopping them from doing that this year then?

You can't just give up 15 yard roughing penalties all day.[/quote]


They actually asked JT that same Q and he said its worth a couple flags to show the QB he won't be running around all day like they did this yr. He actually seemed irritated by the offense .

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;989183]They actually asked JT that same Q and he said its worth a couple flags to show the QB he won't be running around all day like they did this yr. He actually seemed irritated by the offense .[/quote]

Just as long as they realize that the Redskins have a defense as well and just as easily, in fact more easily can hit their non mobile QB. If teams are going to go after RG3 they should be prepared to lose their QB. I would make that crystal clear if I was Shanahan.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

If you position a LB, S, or CB to shadow the RB and at the same time have a DE committed to the QB, you can slow down our read option. This theoretically allows you more hits on the QB because the DE doesn't have to think - he just charges. In this way what JT and Parcells said was true. But various circumstances conspire against a defense's ability to pull off this ideal defense.

[QUOTE=Lotus;989193]If you position a LB, S, or CB to shadow the RB and at the same time have a DE committed to the QB, you can slow down our read option. This theoretically allows you more hits on the QB because the DE doesn't have to think - he just charges. In this way what JT and Parcells said was true. But various circumstances conspire against a defense's ability to pull off this ideal defense.[/QUOTE]

Ahhh....the perfect world of theoretics. Lol.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

Until RG3 starts getting hit again on the read option or it stops working I say continue using it. As I pointed out before (after being drawn to it by someone on 980) somewhere around week 2 or 3 RG3 started doing the thing where he put his hands up to let defenders know he didn't have the ball and from there on he took very few if any hits on read option plays. All the bad stuff happened on improvised scrambles off traditional drop back and throw passing plays.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=punch it in;989163]I just cant imagine any of the DC's that got burned this year by the read option saying "oh my God I figured it out, next year when teams do that were just going to hit the qb everytime no matter what!"
Its actually absurd.[/quote]

Yeah I just don't understand what DC's are waiting for if hitting the QB is the solution. Someone needed to give that memo to Green Bay last week.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

I say this as a "devil's advocate". But what's stopping DEs from just blitzing all out, and if it's a read option just go hit the QB? It's not like they'll get a penalty if they can get to the QB right after he hands off the ball.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

the 6-2 defense we ran in pop warner would put an end to this read option madness. 4 down lineman w 2 standing ends, the ends crash down, the 2 linebackers go to the ball, the 2 cornerbacks and safety clean up the mess. oh wait, pro qbs can throw farther than 30 yards...

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=HailGreen28;989216]I say this as a "devil's advocate". But what's stopping DEs from just blitzing all out, and if it's a read option just go hit the QB? It's not like they'll get a penalty if they can get to the QB right after he hands off the ball.[/quote]

If they can't get to the QB the back is probably running wild in your secondary.

And with someone like RG3 who makes great reads, he's never going to keep the ball when he sees the end selling out in his direction.

[QUOTE=HailGreen28;989216]I say this as a "devil's advocate". But what's stopping DEs from just blitzing all out, and if it's a read option just go hit the QB? It's not like they'll get a penalty if they can get to the QB right after he hands off the ball.[/QUOTE]
All I know is If it worked they would be doing it already.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/redskins-watch/2013/jan/15/thoughts-rg3s-knee-rehabilitation-blame-game-and-w/]Thoughts on RG3's knee rehabilitation, the blame game, and what to expect when he returns - Washington Times[/url]
More of the same, with a little more. Worth the read. IMO

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

I am officially tapped out when it comes to stuff about RG3 and kneegate. Let me know when there's an actual real update.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;989248]I am officially tapped out when it comes to stuff about RG3 and kneegate. Let me know when there's an actual real update.[/quote]

I second that. How about we close this thread and post a warning on the site that anyone mentioning the knee for the next month gets banished to extremeskins until the regular season starts. I'm pretty sure extremeskins is a penal colony, like Australia, right?

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;989248]I am officially tapped out when it comes to stuff about RG3 and kneegate. Let me know when there's an actual real update.[/quote]

I hear ya, unfortunately, there wont be a "real" update. Whatever the status regarding RG3's knee, all we will hear from the Skins camp is how great his recovery is going and the knee will be 100%. Everyone else will report the opposite.

Like it or not, it's still the biggest story in the NFL and the Redskins. HTTR!!!

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

I am surprised we don't have a daily RG3 crutch watch. I figure it's coming mid February.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;989260][B]I second that[/B]. How about we close this thread and post a warning on the site that anyone mentioning the knee for the next month gets banished to extremeskins until the regular season starts. I'm pretty sure extremeskins is a penal colony, like Australia, right?[/quote]

Shocker!!! lol