Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=WCommandersfan99;1374553]Agree on Fowler. 10.5 sacks is nothing to scoff at and not easily replaceable. Surprised he wasn't retained honestly. Hoping Lane does great in the NFL. He is fast and brings some unique skills.

Good read on him below:

[url]https://www.commanders.com/news/jaylin-lane-five-things-to-know-commanders-nfl-draft[/url][/quote]

it had to have been the money he was offered - remember his little public expression of dismay .... but yea i would have had him back but if the FO didnt think the price was right so be it

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=WCommandersfan99;1374553]Agree on Fowler. 10.5 sacks is nothing to scoff at and not easily replaceable. Surprised he wasn't retained honestly. Hoping Lane does great in the NFL. He is fast and brings some unique skills.

Good read on him below:

[url]https://www.commanders.com/news/jaylin-lane-five-things-to-know-commanders-nfl-draft[/url][/quote]

True that 10.5 sacks is nothing to sneeze at. Think Fowler is going to do that again? He has been in the league for 10 seasons. Two good years 2019 getting 11.5 sacks . . . and last year getting 10.5 sacks. His remaining years he had 4, 8, 2, 2, 3, 4.5, 6, and 4 respectively. He is nothing special as a pass rusher and was downright miserable defending the run. I think the combination Jacob Martin and Deatrich Wise is a BIG upgrade over Fowler.

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1374555]True that 10.5 sacks is nothing to sneeze at. Think Fowler is going to do that again? He has been in the league for 10 seasons. Two good years 2019 getting 11.5 sacks . . . and last year getting 10.5 sacks. His remaining years he had 4, 8, 2, 2, 3, 4.5, 6, and 4 respectively. He is nothing special as a pass rusher and was downright miserable defending the run. I think the combination Jacob Martin and Deatrich Wise is a BIG upgrade over Fowler.[/quote]

This ! Even in Kiem podcast he touched on the same perspective with Flowers

We were lucky we got that production out of him last year, lighting wasn't going strike twice

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=WCommandersfan99;1374545]Deebo slacking off when getting paid? WTF are you talking about it? His injury history is overblown as I've already stated. He has played in at least 15 regular season games 3 of the last 4 years. The other one he still played in 11. It's not like he was hurt for the whole year.

Also, as I mentioned if he balls out (likely) we can give him a new deal. McLaurin-Deebo is a nasty 1-2 punch. Look at Philly with Brown and Smith. They don't have much after that at receiver. But clearly they didn't need it because the rest of their team and especially their defense is so good.

I'd actually take our depth pieces at receiver over Philly's last year (Gallup, Noah Brown, McCaffrey, Brooks) etc. Gallup and Brown are good for at least a few hundred yds a season at receiver virtually every year they play. Do you recognize how good of production this is for a 3 a 4 wr?

Our receivers were fine going into 2025 prior to the draft, and they nabbed Brooks who put up twice the amount of receiving yds that Lane did their final college seasons. I don't give a rat's ass if Lane is fast. Brooks was the better college player. You are underestimating how critical edge is to the NFL. Why do you think Philly had Mahomes on his ass the whole SB and dominated the dynasty? Sweat and all their big uglies is why. Something our team lacks and will prevent us from winning the SB this year.[/quote]

It is no secret that the Niners became frustrated with Deebo, conditioning and being unmotivated were the main issues. Not sure how you are unaware of this. How else can we explain such a productive player being dealt for a late 5th? I know he requested a trade but they took a $31 million cap hit to get out of the Deebo Samuel business and this can not be ignored, nor can we ignore how apparently any team could have landed him for 4th but chose not to.

Using your stats in the last 4 seasons he has missed 2 games in 3 seasons and 7 games in a 4th. That's an injury history that will not improve with age.

Now in a contract year as I said I expect him to blow up. But being overweight, out of shape, with decreasing production and an injury history is now part of his legacy and that can't be overlooked as they consider paying top of the market price to a 30 year old.


Yes if you go down the depth chart Noah Brown is better than Philly's WR3. But let's not pretend Terry and whoever wins WR2 is as good as Devonte Adams and AJ Brown. Deebo is a gaget guy, a real weapon who will also carry the ball as a RB but he is not a WR 2. Top WR 2's do not end the season in a good offense with 51/670/3. So we can't compare him to Phillys WR2, he's in a special catagory. So that leave us with Terry and JAG GUY as the WR2. If Terry went down this WR group would have been below average, even with Deebo blowing up in his role.

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1374555]True that 10.5 sacks is nothing to sneeze at. Think Fowler is going to do that again? He has been in the league for 10 seasons. Two good years 2019 getting 11.5 sacks . . . and last year getting 10.5 sacks. His remaining years he had 4, 8, 2, 2, 3, 4.5, 6, and 4 respectively. He is nothing special as a pass rusher and was downright miserable defending the run. I think the combination Jacob Martin and Deatrich Wise is a BIG upgrade over Fowler.[/quote]

I was about to make the same comment. Fowler had a career year in sacks that probably won't repeat. He was also one of the main culprits in a putrid run defense. The problem last year was not pass rush, they were actually pretty high on the list of pressures with Fowler obviously factoring into that.

No the problem as well all know was their complete inability to stop the run, from the first game of the season to the last. If they brought him back as a third down specialist I'd be fine with that. But Dante Fowler as the full time RDE would have been the same problems and without the 10.5 sacks.

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=Darrell Green Fan;1374561]It is no secret that the Niners became frustrated with Deebo, conditioning and being unmotivated were the main issues. Not sure how you are unaware of this. How else can we explain such a productive player being dealt for a late 5th? I know he requested a trade but they took a $31 million cap hit to get out of the Deebo Samuel business and this can not be ignored, nor can we ignore how apparently any team could have landed him for 4th but chose not to.

Using your stats in the last 4 seasons he has missed 2 games in 3 seasons and 7 games in a 4th. That's an injury history that will not improve with age.

Now in a contract year as I said I expect him to blow up. But being overweight, out of shape, with decreasing production and an injury history is now part of his legacy and that can't be overlooked as they consider paying top of the market price to a 30 year old.


Yes if you go down the depth chart Noah Brown is better than Philly's WR3. But let's not pretend Terry and whoever wins WR2 is as good as Devonte Adams and AJ Brown. Deebo is a gaget guy, a real weapon who will also carry the ball as a RB but he is not a WR 2. Top WR 2's do not end the season in a good offense with 51/670/3. So we can't compare him to Phillys WR2, he's in a special catagory. So that leave us with Terry and JAG GUY as the WR2. If Terry went down this WR group would have been below average, even with Deebo blowing up in his role.[/quote]Deebo already addressed this. He said it was due to pneumonia and injuries that he was heavier last year. Please show me 1 article indicating he's unmotivated. We are getting a highly motivated Deebo. SF traded Deebo because he wanted a trade and they save the large salary. It's not his fault that Aiyuk got a fat deal and did hardly anything since. I understand he got hurt.

[url]https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/news/deebo-samuel-trade-san-francisco-49ers-commnanders/c8b45cc2e57a99ec05367fd0[/url]

WTF are you talking about Devante Adams when talking about Philly? He has been on the Jets and Raiders the last 4 years and has never been an Eagle. Please get your facts straight. Believe you're referring to DeVonta Smith.

Strongly disagree with you about Deebo not being a #2 wr. He consistently puts very solid receiving yards every season just not elite which coincides with most #2s in the league. He averages around 800 yds rec/season and is a great run blocker. Yes, he can rush also as you noticed which is an added bonus. You think Deebo is just JAG. SMH. He is more than capable of being great as #2. Purdy struggled more in 2024 especially late in the season as did the Niners offense a lot. Deebo saw this and wanted out. Jayden and Kingsbury will bring out the best in him.

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1374555]True that 10.5 sacks is nothing to sneeze at. Think Fowler is going to do that again?[/quote]How do you know he won't do it again? He credited our all time sacks leader into transforming him into a strong pass rusher. He led the team in sacks last year. He can be subbed out on obvious rushing downs and play during passing plays. Wish he would have been kept.

[url]https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/44253088/source-pass-rusher-dante-fowler-jr-cowboys-reach-deal[/url]

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=WCommandersfan99;1374564]Deebo already addressed this. He said it was due to pneumonia and injuries that he was heavier last year. Please show me 1 article indicating he's unmotivated. We are getting a highly motivated Deebo. SF traded Deebo because he wanted a trade and they save the large salary. It's not his fault that Aiyuk got a fat deal and did hardly anything since. I understand he got hurt.

[url]https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/news/deebo-samuel-trade-san-francisco-49ers-commnanders/c8b45cc2e57a99ec05367fd0[/url]

WTF are you talking about Devante Adams when talking about Philly? He has been on the Jets and Raiders the last 4 years and has never been an Eagle. Please get your facts straight. Believe you're referring to DeVonta Smith.

Strongly disagree with you about Deebo not being a #2 wr. He consistently puts very solid receiving yards every season just not elite which coincides with most #2s in the league. He averages around 800 yds rec/season and is a great run blocker. Yes, he can rush also as you noticed which is an added bonus. You think Deebo is just JAG. SMH. He is more than capable of being great as #2. Purdy struggled more in 2024 especially late in the season as did the Niners offense a lot. Deebo saw this and wanted out. Jayden and Kingsbury will bring out the best in him.[/quote]

I admire your passion, I'll give you that.

I never said we are getting an unmotived player. As a matter of fact I said the exact opposite, Deebo in a contract year will be highly motivated and highly productive IMO as I had clearly said. Obviously I was talking about his next contract as I made reference to that repeatedly. Just as obvious was I meant Smith not Adams. Don't go overboard about a simple oversight please.

As for Deebo in SF it's common knowledge that Deebo in SF was overweight. out of shape and had fallen our of favor with management. I'm not doing your work for you, Google will help you with that. Use the words "Deebo 20 pounds overweight in 2024" and read the reports and not the words of the player who has every reason to lie. Your own article explains how trade rumors involving Deebo have occured in previous years which begs the question why on Earth would the Niners be interested in trading a player like Deebo Samuel? Why did they chose to hitch their wagon to Aiyuk and not continue with Deebo Samuel?

I never once said Deebo Samuel is "just JAG". WTF are YOU talking about? I referred to everyone else as JAGs because that's exactly what they are.

So as I have argued Terry and Deebo are the only 2 legit weapons in the WR room. One is in a contract year who is about to turn 30 with an injury and weight issue history. So after this season that may very well mean 1 legit weapon on the outside who is about to turn 30 as well and bunch of guys after that. This situation could have very well lead to an overpay in FA or reaching in the 2026 draft to try to fill an immediate need.

They needed a young impact WR for this year and beyond, just as they needed a young impact edge. They took the higher rated player on their board. I'm happy this is their strategy and you should be as well.

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=Darrell Green Fan;1374566]I admire your passion, I'll give you that.

I never said we are getting an unmotived player. As a matter of fact I said the exact opposite, Deebo in a contract year will be highly motivated and highly productive IMO as I had clearly said. Obviously I was talking about his next contract as I made reference to that repeatedly. Just as obvious was I meant Smith not Adams. Don't go overboard about a simple oversight please.

As for Deebo in SF it's common knowledge that Deebo in SF was overweight. out of shape and had fallen our of favor with management. I'm not doing your work for you, Google will help you with that. Use the words "Deebo 20 pounds overweight in 2024" and read the reports and not the words of the player who has every reason to lie. Your own article explains how trade rumors involving Deebo have occured in previous years which begs the question why on Earth would the Niners be interested in trading a player like Deebo Samuel? Why did they chose to hitch their wagon to Aiyuk and not continue with Deebo Samuel?

I never once said Deebo Samuel is "just JAG". WTF are YOU talking about? I referred to everyone else as JAGs because that's exactly what they are.

So as I have argued Terry and Deebo are the only 2 legit weapons in the WR room. One is in a contract year who is about to turn 30 with an injury and weight issue history. So after this season that may very well mean 1 legit weapon on the outside who is about to turn 30 as well and bunch of guys after that. This situation could have very well lead to an overpay in FA or reaching in the 2026 draft to try to fill an immediate need.

They needed a young impact WR for this year and beyond, just as they needed a young impact edge. They took the higher rated player on their board. I'm happy this is their strategy and you should be as well.[/quote]You said Niners said he was unmotivated. False. He was slightly overweight due to pneumonia and injuries. Again show me ANY article saying he's unmotivated as you asserted. Ridiculous for you to say that.

This is your main flawed problem. You keep worrying about wrs for 2026 and beyond and are neglecting the defense. This team was 2 games from winning the SB last year with a star rookie qb. For the millionth time, WR was addressed prior to the draft for the 2025 season. We can worry about 2026 next year more for wrs, and I've already provided solutions for that (extending Deebo, Brooks, McCaffrey more polished etc.). Defense will prevent us from winning the SB which Lane doesn't play.

Your asinine quote below:
[B]
Deebo is a gaget guy, a real weapon who will also carry the ball as a RB but he is not a WR 2. Top WR 2's do not end the season in a good offense with 51/670/3. So we can't compare him to Phillys WR2, he's in a special catagory. So that leave us with Terry and [U]JAG GUY as the WR2[/U].[/B]

Deebo will be our #2 this year whether you like it or not. Jayden has plenty of weapons and an upgraded oline. Defense lost pieces and lacks an edge. Don't come to me when we don't reach the SB next year. Defense still wins championships.

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=WCommandersfan99;1374567]You said Niners said he was unmotivated. False. He was slightly overweight due to pneumonia and injuries. Again show me ANY article saying he's unmotivated as you asserted. Ridiculous for you to say that.

This is your main flawed problem. You keep worrying about wrs for 2026 and beyond and are neglecting the defense. This team was 2 games from winning the SB last year with a star rookie qb. For the millionth time, WR was addressed prior to the draft for the 2025 season. We can worry about 2026 next year more for wrs, and I've already provided solutions for that (extending Deebo, Brooks, McCaffrey more polished etc.). Defense will prevent us from winning the SB which Lane doesn't play.

Your asinine quote below:
[B]
Deebo is a gaget guy, a real weapon who will also carry the ball as a RB but he is not a WR 2. Top WR 2's do not end the season in a good offense with 51/670/3. So we can't compare him to Phillys WR2, he's in a special catagory. So that leave us with Terry and [U]JAG GUY as the WR2[/U].[/B]

Deebo will be our #2 this year whether you like it or not. Jayden has plenty of weapons and an upgraded oline. Defense lost pieces and lacks an edge. Don't come to me when we don't reach the SB next year. Defense still wins championships.[/quote]

I guess you don't want to discuss how there have been trade rumors for years now and why that would be, or why they chose to extend Aiyuk and not Samuel. Being overweight and out of shape is a symptom of not being motivated. These were taken from a few articles, there are many more out there and frankly I'm surprised this needs to be proven to you as it's common knowledge:
[I]
During those rough negotiations, I heard that a 49ers negotiator told Deebo or his agent that he didn’t deserve the kind of massive extension other players were receiving because he wasn’t going to last that long at the top of the game.[/I]

[I]Specifically, the 49ers didn’t think his style of play — [B]and, quite frankly, his training habits [/B]— would lead to much production into his late-20s and 30s. [/I]

[url]https://sfstandard.com/2025/03/03/49ers-deebo-samuel-trade-what-we-learned/[/url]

[I]There appeared to be consternation between Samuel and the club over the last several seasons. The 29-year-old complained about his touches during 2024,[B] and the Niners have reportedly had concerns for a few years.[/B]
[/I]

[url]https://www.nfl.com/news/deebo-samuel-no-bad-blood-with-49ers-following-trade-to-commanders#:~:text=There%20appeared%20to%20be%20consternation,let%20any%20issues%20wash%20away[/url].

It's clear by your post that you want the quick fix for next season, although a rookie edge picked in the 2nd round probably won't be an immediate impact player. The team has chosen a more long term approach and I believe them when they said they took the best player available and that is always the correct approach to take.

There is no guarantee that they will sign Samuel to another contract. So that leaves potentially a 30 year old as the only legit WR weapon going into next season.

Don't ever lose that passion man, I have enjoyed this exchange even with your nasty tone.

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=Darrell Green Fan;1374569]I guess you don't want to discuss how there have been trade rumors for years now and why that would be, or why they chose to extend Aiyuk and not Samuel. Being overweight and out of shape is a symptom of not being motivated. These were taken from a few articles, there are many more out there and frankly I'm surprised this needs to be proven to you as it's common knowledge:
[I]
During those rough negotiations, I heard that a 49ers negotiator told Deebo or his agent that he didn’t deserve the kind of massive extension other players were receiving because he wasn’t going to last that long at the top of the game.[/I]

[I]Specifically, the 49ers didn’t think his style of play — [B]and, quite frankly, his training habits [/B]— would lead to much production into his late-20s and 30s. [/I]

[url]https://sfstandard.com/2025/03/03/49ers-deebo-samuel-trade-what-we-learned/[/url]

[I]There appeared to be consternation between Samuel and the club over the last several seasons. The 29-year-old complained about his touches during 2024,[B] and the Niners have reportedly had concerns for a few years.[/B]
[/I]

[url]https://www.nfl.com/news/deebo-samuel-no-bad-blood-with-49ers-following-trade-to-commanders#:~:text=There%20appeared%20to%20be%20consternation,let%20any%20issues%20wash%20away[/url].

It's clear by your post that you want the quick fix for next season, although a rookie edge picked in the 2nd round probably won't be an immediate impact player. The team has chosen a more long term approach and I believe them when they said they took the best player available and that is always the correct approach to take.

There is no guarantee that they will sign Samuel to another contract. So that leaves potentially a 30 year old as the only legit WR weapon going into next season.

Don't ever lose that passion man, I have enjoyed this exchange even with your nasty tone.[/quote]Likewise on your passion also. I recognize we're just fans who want a ring. I didn't see anything in either article implying a motivation level at SF. That's my main issue with what you're saying. He's motivated now which both of us agree is all that matters. Peters was actually singing his praises yesterday:

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/adam-peters-deebo-samuel-can-put-team-on-his-back-and-will-you-to-win[/url]

I don't understand why you keep worrying about receivers in 2026 now. By your tone, you would think McLaurin and the gang are all 38 years old. NFL receivers can and a lot produce well past 30 now. Hill, Thielen, Adams, Hopkins, etc. Please be open to the wonderful possibility of extending McLaurin and Deebo next year and they will continue to produce. AP will know what to do with receivers and we have a great owner now supporting him. We only have JD on a rookie contract for so long is why I'm concerned about the defense going into 2025. Hope I'm wrong and they're great on d.

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[QUOTE=WCommandersfan99;1374574]Likewise on your passion also. I recognize we're just fans who want a ring. I didn't see anything in either article implying a motivation level at SF. That's my main issue with what you're saying. He's motivated now which both of us agree is all that matters. Peters was actually singing his praises yesterday:



[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/adam-peters-deebo-samuel-can-put-team-on-his-back-and-will-you-to-win[/url]



I don't understand why you keep worrying about receivers in 2026 now. By your tone, you would think McLaurin and the gang are all 38 years old. NFL receivers can and a lot produce well past 30 now. Hill, Thielen, Adams, Hopkins, etc. Please be open to the wonderful possibility of extending McLaurin and Deebo next year and they will continue to produce. AP will know what to do with receivers and we have a great owner now supporting him. We only have JD on a rookie contract for so long is why I'm concerned about the defense going into 2025. Hope I'm wrong and they're great on d.[/QUOTE]JD5's rookie contract is exactly why getting a veteran edge and rookie wr. a veteran edge can come in and pick up DQ and Whitt's scheme, but getting a rookie WR with high upside gives JD5 time to develop a high level rapport.
if you reverse it. the rookie edge doesn't have a true mentor here and a veteran WR might have habits he has to unlearn.

This isn't an end all rationale for drafting purposes but as a fan understanding maybe it gives you a different frame of reference.

Sent from my SM-S711U using Tapatalk

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1374578]JD5's rookie contract is exactly why getting a veteran edge and rookie wr. a veteran edge can come in and pick up DQ and Whitt's scheme, but getting a rookie WR with high upside gives JD5 time to develop a high level rapport.
if you reverse it. the rookie edge doesn't have a true mentor here and a veteran WR might have habits he has to unlearn.

This isn't an end all rationale for drafting purposes but as a fan understanding maybe it gives you a different frame of reference.

Sent from my SM-S711U using Tapatalk[/quote]I'm good with your logic but give me that veteran edge also since it hasn't happened yet. In my dreams, I was hoping we'd trade for Hendrickson or even better Watt. That ain't happening and pickings are getting slim. Really hope to get a good veteran edge who can harass qbs but I have doubts at this point.

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[QUOTE=WCommandersfan99;1374582]I'm good with your logic but give me that veteran edge also since it hasn't happened yet. In my dreams, I was hoping we'd trade for Hendrickson or even better Watt. That ain't happening and pickings are getting slim. Really hope to get a good veteran edge who can harass qbs but I have doubts at this point.[/QUOTE]I would bet money that we sign an edge in the next 5 weeks. not a lot of money but a few [emoji16]

Sent from my SM-S711U using Tapatalk

Re: Commanders 2025 Offseason Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1374583]I would bet money that we sign an edge in the next 5 weeks. not a lot of money but a few [emoji16]

Sent from my SM-S711U using Tapatalk[/quote]Hope you're correct. We need one as you may know I feel strongly about :D