Pro Bowl Bound - Samuels, Moss

I don't deny the difference that Vick can make but if he was such an MVP then he wouldn't have been so lousy these last couple of weeks in key games (both losses) to the Panthers and Bears.

The Panthers and Bears are divison leading playoff teams. Brunell lost to the Raiders, and tried his best to lose to the Cardinals. Bledsoe also lost to the Raiders, and tried his best to lose to the Niners.

Tom Brady's stats don't really jump off the page. He's never thrown more than 28 TDs and his next closest total is 23. Would you argue that he's overrated?

This year Brady is putting up monster numbers, he's on pace for over 4000 yards and over 25 TDs. Those are big numbers worthy of the Pro Bowl IMO.

As for his previous years I'm not sure what you're talking about, he's always had the numbers.

Look at his yardage and TD-INT ratio over the past 3 years

2002: 3764, 28-14
2003: 3620, 23-12
2004: 3692, 28-14

I don't know where you come from, but where I come from those are pretty damn good numbers. Add in completion percentages all over 60% during those years and there's just no denying what Brady has done stats wise along with the wins.

Vick doesn't even touch these numbers. He's not even in the ball park. Their situations aren't similar in the least bit.

I'm just going to go ahead and say it: WHAT IS THE ****ING OBSESSION WITH MIKE VICK?!?!?!

The Panthers and Bears are divison leading playoff teams. Brunell lost to the Raiders, and tried his best to lose to the Cardinals. Bledsoe also lost to the Raiders, and tried his best to lose to the Niners.

I realize that. Brunell also has won three in a row, with the playoffs on the line. Though I understand what you're saying about the quality of the opponent.

What I'm saying though is that if the argument is going to be made that the Falcons are a much better team when Vick is in and they win with him and that's a big reason why he's in the Pro Bowl, then you have to factor in that when it's mattered recently against top teams they haven't won. And Vick can't be absolved of blame in those losses. So what does it matter that they're better with him if they lose anyway.?

I'm just going to go ahead and say it: WHAT IS THE ****ING OBSESSION WITH MIKE VICK?!?!?!

First of all, I'm not at all obsessed with Vick, but if I had to guess why the general population loves him so much, it's probably because he has more natural ability than just about everyone in the league.


What I'm saying though is that if the argument is going to be made that the Falcons are a much better team when Vick is in and they win with him and that's a big reason why he's in the Pro Bowl, then you have to factor in that when it's mattered recently against top teams they haven't won. And Vick can't be absolved of blame in those losses. So what does it matter that they're better with him if they lose anyway.?

Good point, and I do agree that there are several areas where Vick has to improve to be a championship quarterback(i.e. closing games, relying on his teammates and not just himself, etc.). I'm not even trying to argue that he definitely should be in the Pro Bowl. It just seems like the general population of this board thinks he sucks or is overrated, and I completely disagree with that sentiment.

i cants figure out how to make a new post but i just wanted to say hi to you dumb skins fans. anyone remember me? aww yeah denim is back in the hizzow

:headbange

For what it's worth, Dan Patrick is HEAVILY endorsing Brunell for the Pro Bowl on his show this PM.
Food for thought. I to, have heard the Vick arguments. He IS definately entertaining. However, any team that is not SIGNIFIGANTLY better with it's starting QB in the lineup DESPERATELY needs another starting QB!

Vick doesn't win big games, its as simple as that. He is an okay passer and a good runner. To say he doesn't have targets is a joke. ATL got Peerless Price, they used their last 2 1st round picks on WR's, and yet none of these guys can play in the NFL?

It's the overall ground game (Dunn, Duckett, Vick) that drives the ATL offense. Stop that and they have nothing, cuz Vick can't pass to anyone besides Crumpler.

It just seems like the general population of this board thinks he sucks or is overrated, and I completely disagree with that sentiment.

It's important to remember that what I and, I think, many others are saying is not that he sucks. Just that he's overrated in terms of being one of the better QBs in the league. You can still be good but not be one of the best.

:postcop:
Why would have McNabb have made the pro-bowl, and what is your reasoning that Vick made it? Was it Vick's great touchdown to int ratio of 13td's to 12 int's? Or was it Vick's incrediable completion percentage of 54%?

Why would it be so hard, if you are a redskins fan, to be upset that our very own Mark Brunell did not make it? I mean he is having a way better season than Vick is, you do have to admit that.

I agree that Hasselbeck and Delhomme(SP) should not have made it, not over Brunell and Bledsoe(SP). Espically not Delhomme, not when Brunell has 2 td's for every 1 int.

And yes I will admit that last year I couldn't stand that Brunell was our QB, but you have to give credit where credit is due and Brunell got totally nubbed.

Its wouldn't my brother....Brunell can have Haslebeck place.....I voted for Mark Brunell