Ex Cardinal DB died in combat

I agree that his sacrifice was noble. He could have taken the easy way out but he didn't. I respect his convictions and his choice. But the quote seems to be saying that you're weak unless you're willing to go to war and I don't think that's true. I was just pointing out that MLK and Gandhi fought and died for what they believed in without using violence and without regard for their personal safety, and I think their sacrifice was just as noble, if not more so, because it's so difficult to stay on the path of nonviolence when people are attacking you. That said, Pat Tillman is a hero and I'm genuinely sad today, though I didn't even know him.

I agree that his sacrifice was noble. He could have taken the easy way out but he didn't. I respect his convictions and his choice. But the quote seems to be saying that you're weak unless you're willing to go to war and I don't think that's true. I was just pointing out that MLK and Gandhi fought for what they believed in without using violence, and I think their sacrifice was just as noble, if not more so, because it's so difficult to stay on the path of nonviolence when people are attacking you. That said, Pat Tillman is a hero and I'm genuinely sad today, though I didn't even know him.

OK, but I believe the article's intent is this, not that if a person doesn't go to war makes him horrible, just because a person isn't serving now doesn't mean thier horrible, but the refusal to serve your country when called upon whether it be fighting or support, and still enjoy all the abundance of opportunities that it provides, while someone else does the dirty work, and perhap's give's his life so you can enjoy your freedom's, that's is what the quote is saying.

remember, freedom is not free!

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing, which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than him." -- John Stewart Mill (1806-1873)
RIP

My condolences to Pat Tillman's family and loved ones.
John Stewart Mill (1806-1873) died at the ripe old age of 67. In 1873 that is very old. He never fought in any war.
John Stewart Mill was an intellectual and lived a privileged life. He was educated entirely by his father, James Mill, and was deliberately shielded from association with other boys of his age. At the age of 21 he had a mental breakdown, that was later blamed on his father and the rigid way he brought him up.
It is typical that an intellectual, politician or President that never fought in a war says something like this....and ends up with the power to send people to war to die.
Regardless of the circumstances surrounding any given war.
It is easy for someone that never has been to war to say this .

The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting. --- Sun-tzu

I must say I hope that the Arizona Cardinals remember what a great man and what great services he gave to their team and takes care of his family. I know it's not required, but it would be a nice gesture.

As of Simeon Rice's comments - I seriously doubt they were after this guy died. He has his right to an opinion and I highly doubt Rice would say something of the sort to enflame a mourning family. I'm sure they didn't get along in AZ and he was sick of hearing about him. If his comments were after this tragedy, then fuck him!

Tillman is a great hero. He really speaks to what makes this country great. He could have had a plush life with a fat contract in the NFL, and instead he gave the ultimate sacrifice for our country.

We are all in his debt, as well as to the other courageous men and women who defend this country.

Like most of you when I saw the news on Pat Tilman's death today I was upset by it. I think we can all appreciate his love of country and his desire to be part of something far greater than himself.

I know there are a few others that post here often like me that are in the military. We all know of the possiblility that this may happen to us but it is an accepted part of life. I ask that we all take pause to reflect on the sacrifices being made everyday by our brothers and sisters fighting "over there."

Oh, one last thing... I believe the quote listed below rings true -- especially today...

Gentlemen,

This thread started as tribute to a man who measured courage and conviction in much different way than most. Please let it remain so. Enough on the virtues of war and peace. Daseal, Ghost, SkinsFan and I are having a most interesting discussion on these issues in the Parking Lot, check out our threads there and comment appropriately.

In this thread, can we simply remember a man who laid his life down for his convictions and offer support to his family.

Thank you.

I agree JoeRedskin, well said.

great find DBB with the petion. I agree with matty and joe, we need to leave our personal beliefs on the war out of this and just pay our respects to Mr. Tillman and our other fallen countrymen and women.

I also don't know about the rest of you, but I agree with the idea spoken about on "around the horn" on espn, of Tillman getting an honorary induction into the hall of fame for his selfless courage and sacrifice.