Question about Pass-Play Selection

So how would call the game from start to finish?

For one thing, I'd try and go downfield a lot more and to do that you need a QB who can throw it long - Ramsey, not Brunell. Not necessarily bombs all day long, but whatever happened to the 15 to 25 yard pass? We seldom if ever see it called. Our offense is very predictable and has been for a long time. The Gibbs innovations that were his trademark in the 80's simply are nowhere to be seen the last year and a half. Hence, the inability to score more than 20 points in most of our games under Gibbs.

I would say size. Even a mediocre but large receiver could take a couple of shots over the middle. Like someone else said, though, Moss just isn't big enough for that to be an effective part of our game.

For one thing, I'd try and go downfield a lot more and to do that you need a QB who can throw it long - Ramsey, not Brunell.

Please that argument is old and has been debunked a long time ago.


Not necessarily bombs all day long, but whatever happened to the 15 to 25 yard pass? We seldom if ever see it called.

We see it called quite often, but our ONE receiver can't get open when he's double and tripled teamed.


Our offense is very predictable and has been for a long time. The Gibbs innovations that were his trademark in the 80's simply are nowhere to be seen the last year and a half. Hence, the inability to score more than 20 points in most of our games under Gibbs.

Oh please, that is another argument that has been debunked a long time ago. Again, I ask you how you would have called the game from start to finish, and all you can tell me is you'd put in Ramsey and tell him to throw it deep. But you haven't given me a specific gameplan nor have you told me what you'd tell your qb to do if the receiver is not open downfield.

For one thing, I'd try and go downfield a lot more and to do that you need a QB who can throw it long - Ramsey, not Brunell. Not necessarily bombs all day long, but whatever happened to the 15 to 25 yard pass? We seldom if ever see it called. Our offense is very predictable and has been for a long time. The Gibbs innovations that were his trademark in the 80's simply are nowhere to be seen the last year and a half. Hence, the inability to score more than 20 points in most of our games under Gibbs.

More easily said than done, obviously.

If it's not there it's not there.

Defenses have focused on taking away Moss deep. Or do you think the team has just made a conscious effort to stop going down the field like they were earlier in the season?

I would agree that we have limited times gone over the middle, but when we have we have had success. If Moss is being double teamed and he runs a corner route it should clear it out for a Tight end, Cooley, or the play we have scored on a couple times and also had big gains the TB out of the backfield on a seam route down the middle of the field. We do work the edges and flats a lot. I can only hope Gibbs is holding some plays for this week. I think he will test Dallas deep this week, especially after that last deep pass against dallas that set up the FG yesterday, right across the middle and that is where we had our success in the previous game. Dallas is going to bring the house, so we will probably have some slants and short to intermediate passing this game. Moss should have a cushion this week also.

Like previously stated, Moss is the #1 guy and is the downfield threat. He is the fly guy so to speak, but will occasionally run the post in the middle. The reason nothing goes to the middle is because that is generally your #2 or #3 guys in the slot or trying to get the safety to commit down the middle leaving moss open down the sideline. However, since our #2(Jacobs) and #3(whoever) suck, and cant get open if I covered them, Moss is double sometimes tripled teamed.

Just curious T. Jacobs has not produced and from the way it sounds he is left in man coverage. The dude can fly, where is his weakness, route running, getting off the line with the DB. That short slant is hard as hell to cover for a DB, so why is he not getting the ball he is much faster than Cooley and surely can run a better route as a WR so how is Cooley getting open and Jacobs not. Most of the time when he gets it, also on the edge none across the middle. Is Brunell not looking their way and focused on Moss and Cooley. Are we saying they suck because of the stats, because even Patten stats sucked and if I recall alot of people were saying he sucked as a number two receiver, now we revert that he was the reason why Moss is blanketed now. From what I see we are not getting the ball to our # 2 and 3 receivers no matter who is in there. It is not Patten demanded more coverage than the other guys, Defenses just blanket moss and say beat us with your # 2 and #3 receivers. From the beginning of the year our 2nd and 3rd receivers have not even had many balls thrown to them. I can recall watching some of the games Patten running alone and never looked at by the QB. I think the only time Brunell hits a secondary receiver is if it is a dump down when he is being pressured.

Just curious T. Jacobs has not produced and from the way it sounds he is left in man coverage. The dude can fly, where is his weakness, route running, getting off the line with the DB. That short slant is hard as hell to cover for a DB, so why is he not getting the ball he is much faster than Cooley and surely can run a better route as a WR so how is Cooley getting open and Jacobs not. Most of the time when he gets it, also on the edge none across the middle. Is Brunell not looking their way and focused on Moss and Cooley. Are we saying they suck because of the stats, because even Patten stats sucked and if I recall alot of people were saying he sucked as a number two receiver, now we revert that he was the reason why Moss is blanketed now. From what I see we are not getting the ball to our # 2 and 3 receivers no matter who is in there. It is not Patten demanded more coverage than the other guys, Defenses just blanket moss and say beat us with your # 2 and #3 receivers. From the beginning of the year our 2nd and 3rd receivers have not even had many balls thrown to them. I can recall watching some of the games Patten running alone and never looked at by the QB. I think the only time Brunell hits a secondary receiver is if it is a dump down when he is being pressured.

Jacobs does have good speed, but he does not run very good routes, as a #2 should. I get muscled at the line of scrimmage and get off the ball. Cooley is very good at finding the open spots on the field, which alot of teams have reported. Cooley just has that "knack" of finding space. Since Jacobs does not require to have a safety help, that leaves him one on one most of the time and Moss doubled or triple covered. This is why we run those screens to him because he is a playmaker and we have to find ways to get him the ball if we can't get him open down field. When patten played, his stats might not have been so good, but because of his reputation as a good route runner and a guy with good speed they could not just leave him one on one with alot of corners, which enabled moss to find open spots as well as being able to get behind corners and safeties. Until we can find someone that demands more attention with coverage out pass selections will be more geared to the shorter routes with moss and cooley. I did like seeing Portis in motion and catching more balls out of the backfield and 10 to 15 years down field. They may be mixing more of the plays in to try and help Moss get some breathing room down field. Cooley and Royal will be used more for the release plays and short crossing patters across the middle. Once we establish this as plays that need the attention of the defense, Moss will find open spaces across the middle and will open up the double moves for the posts and fly patterns.

Jacobs does have good speed, but he does not run very good routes, as a #2 should. I get muscled at the line of scrimmage and get off the ball. Cooley is very good at finding the open spots on the field, which alot of teams have reported. Cooley just has that "knack" of finding space. Since Jacobs does not require to have a safety help, that leaves him one on one most of the time and Moss doubled or triple covered. This is why we run those screens to him because he is a playmaker and we have to find ways to get him the ball if we can't get him open down field. When patten played, his stats might not have been so good, but because of his reputation as a good route runner and a guy with good speed they could not just leave him one on one with alot of corners, which enabled moss to find open spots as well as being able to get behind corners and safeties. Until we can find someone that demands more attention with coverage out pass selections will be more geared to the shorter routes with moss and cooley. I did like seeing Portis in motion and catching more balls out of the backfield and 10 to 15 years down field. They may be mixing more of the plays in to try and help Moss get some breathing room down field. Cooley and Royal will be used more for the release plays and short crossing patters across the middle. Once we establish this as plays that need the attention of the defense, Moss will find open spaces across the middle and will open up the double moves for the posts and fly patterns.

Cooley definitely does have that knack of finding the spot and settling down or just running the route to the open spot. Frustrating with Jacobs not being more productive, but glad he is getting his chance so we won't hold him again next year for zero contribution 3 years now, this will eliminate the 4th year. Royal has rebounded well and a good outlet since that SD game, had to be a fluke, I never remember him dropping that many balls. Anyway you look at it we are doing alright with what we have and using the playmakers to get it done.

We see it called quite often, but our ONE receiver can't get open when he's double and tripled teamed.


he might not be open, but i'd bet he could still come down with 50-60% of the balls if brunell would throw it somewhere near him... brunell is ultra conservative about throwing into coverage though, but when he's done it, it's worked.