Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?

I don't know that the Skins were all that much improved talent wise from 2002 to 2003, the two game difference proves that. If you look at the stats from each of the two years that TAFKAS posted, you'll see that Spurrier suffered from a bad defense especially when Marvin Lewis left.

One more thing, season two for Gibbs isn't over yet...

The only way Gibbs and Spurrier's ultimate stat (W-L) is even after two years is if we lose out. Man, you have no faith in this team.

I don't know that the Skins were all that much improved talent wise from 2002 to 2003, the two game difference proves that. If you look at the stats from each of the two years that TAFKAS posted, you'll see that Spurrier suffered from a bad defense especially when Marvin Lewis left.

One more thing, season two for Gibbs isn't over yet...

That's some backwards logic: you can't say they lost two fewer games in spite of more talent because the fact that they lost two fewer games proves that they didn't have more talent.

I think the additions of Coles, Randy Thomas, Dave Fiore, Chad Morton, Jesse Armstead, and John Hall were pretty significant (am I forgetting anybody?). Although Trung didn't turn out to be anything resembling an upgrade for Davis, you would have to fault Spurrier for that because he ran Davis out of town - a player who turned around and rushed for 1400 while taking his team to the superbowl that year. While it is clear in retrospect that George Edwards was not an adequate replacement for Marvin Lewis, we made enough upgrades on offense at the time for us to have reasonably expected them to give a better performance than we got.

But this whole thread is ridiculous. Anyone who seriously argues the teams are equal under the two coaches probably hasn't actually seen many games. And no, I am not a Gibbs apologist...

under spurrier 12-20
under gibbs 12-16

but beyond the records, gibbs team is trending upwards, SS's went downhill. JG's team doesn't point fingers, has better talent evaluation, etc. I don't know why this even came up.

Wow. I would not have imagined there would be so much debate on this topic. To me, it is clear that Gibbs in the superior coach and that the team is doing better now than under Spurier. And I think there are clear reasons to believe so:

First, Spurier inherited a fairly disciplined .500 team that had been trending in the right direction under Shottenheimer. Gibbs inherited an undisciplined below .500 team that was falling apart at the end of the Spurier era. I don't think we can underestimate how much Gibbs had to undo to get this team anywhere close to where he wanted it to be.

Second, Spurier's first 7-9 season, which held some promise, was largely ghost-written by Marvin Lewis. Once Lewis left, not only did the defense sour, but the team seemed to lose whatever discipline it had had the year before. As good a college coach as Spurier may be, it just flat out looked over his head in the NFL and without Lewis on the sidelines, that became very obvious in the second season. I remember seeing Spurier on TV looking confused, lost and even disinterested during games. Add to that reports from Lavar Arrington that players were "casual" about loses and didn't seem to care. Contrast that with the discipline, determination and the general sense of calm professionalism that comes from this team, even in the face of adversity.

Third, Spurier's version of the Skins tanked in the second year, rapidly losing ground from the year before. Gibbs' team, however, has improved steadily. It did so at the end of last season and has done so this season. In Spurier's second year, the team felt like an out-of-control car heading for a wreck. Does anyone really get that feeling from this team?

In my humble opinion, Spurier took over a decent team on the right track when he replaced Shottenheimer (Synder's biggest mistake, I think, was firing Shottemheimer after one season) and wrecked it. Gibbs, however, took over a broken team (think of the Cardinals or Lions) and is steadily rebuilding it.

The biggest difference between JG and OBC is that JG has front office support and trust, OBC did not. I think if OBC had this kind of support he would have been successful.

Guys, realistically, next year is our year. I will not be very disappointed if we don't make the playoffs this year, because at the beginning of the year I had hopes for the playoffs, but kind of figured we might end up 8-8 or 9-7, which is probablly where we will be. If we can make the one or two significant player pickups we need for next year, we will be better. I also see a fall off coming next year with the Cowboys and the Eagles. The Giants, unfortunatley will continue to get better because of Eli.

The biggest difference between JG and OBC is that JG has front office support and trust, OBC did not. I think if OBC had this kind of support he would have been successful.


Huh? OBC had all the support from the front office. Snyder did everything he could to get the players OBC wanted. How did he not have the support?

OBC quit. Nuff said!

Huh? OBC had all the support from the front office. Snyder did everything he could to get the players OBC wanted. How did he not have the support?

OBC quit. Nuff said!

OBC did quit and I lost a ton of respect for him because of that.

The front office would not let OBC draft who he wanted and forced him to draft players they wanted. If you recall OBC did not want to draft Ramsey, OBC wanted an O lineman but Snyder said no. Snyder meddled in everything OBC tried to do and OBC did not like having all his decisions approved and potentially changed by someone who knows nothig about football. JG has not had to put up with this kind of questioning and meddeling and if JG ever has another high round draft pick I'm sure he will take who he wants not who Snyder wants.

The thing is Spurrier didn't want much to do with the front office and acquisitions initially. He said he just wanted to coach. He admittedly didn't know much about the players in the NFL so he took a backseat to that aspect. It's not like he got bullied around. He just wasn't a knowledgeable source to be heavily involved in player acquisitions.

After all, this is a guy who brought us the likes of Matthews and Wuerffel and coined the phrase "cheap and available". Not exactly the kind of guy I'd want to turn to if I was Snyder.

I haven't been on here in a few days so thought I would jump right in on the comparisons of the two most recent coaches. I brought this up a week or so ago, saying record wise we are no better than we were 3 years, or 4 years ago. I do believe if you gave spurrier the personel we have now, and GW as the D-coach we would be the same if not better than we are. No doubt Ramsey would be our guy throwing it around. Think about Moss, and probably Gardner, or Jacobs and what Portis would be doing. Its pretty interesting to think of the possabilities. Plus if we had a decent defense we could win alot of games. Spurrier lost alot of games by few points and giving up points on teams final drives, does that sound familiar?