3 things from a very optimisitc fan.

i agree with the item about the trade. i dont think CP is a bad back. he might even be in the top 10. to me however, rb is just not a position that you overpay for (and thats what we did) unless it's like a top 3 back (LT for example). even then, that's hit and miss. another position that i wouldn't overpay for is MLB (see: trotter).

the RB position however is, what seems to me (and i dont play), the easiest to adjust to in the NFL. notice how tatum bell is AWESOME but basically any back there is awesome. it might not have been a HUGE mistake to make the trade; but the 2nd rder made it a bad one looking at it now.

Agreed... a 2nd round pick when we give up a top 2 CB?

that hurts.
What will hurt more is if we give Denver a top 10 1st round pick.

Agreed... a 2nd round pick when we give up a top 2 CB?

that hurts.
What will hurt more is if we give Denver a top 10 1st round pick.

i do think champ is overhyped though... last year jerry porter blew him up and we just saw TO go for 150 against him. He's super athletic, but he gets beat regularly. (springs held TO to 22 and 67 yards in our two games last year i believe)

i agree with the item about the trade. i dont think CP is a bad back. he might even be in the top 10. to me however, rb is just not a position that you overpay for (and thats what we did) unless it's like a top 3 back (LT for example). even then, that's hit and miss. another position that i wouldn't overpay for is MLB (see: trotter).

the RB position however is, what seems to me (and i dont play), the easiest to adjust to in the NFL. notice how tatum bell is AWESOME but basically any back there is awesome. it might not have been a HUGE mistake to make the trade; but the 2nd rder made it a bad one looking at it now.

Exactly. While Denver likely has a better offensive line than the Redskins, a running back like Portis was supposed to make an average O-line better because of his ability to recognize the best running lanes, anticipate the angles of his opponents, all while shifting and adjusting at just the right moment to avoid the tackle and pick up extra yardage. Apart from that one play against the Buccaneers on opening day last year, we haven't seen that from Portis since.

So far, he hasn't been worth all the hype.

Did you know who Salavea was prior to last year? I didn't. And Noble was playing hurt, recovering from the knee. All I'm saying is there's hope that these coaches can find the players to make it work. Griffen is a tougher loss to replace. Let's hope he can make it back soon.

I think CP has looked good this year--I don't count yesterday because he only had 4 carries. That's not the problem here--Clinton can do what this team needs. It's all about the O-line. I'm kinda tired of re-hashing that trade. It's done. But I'm not sure why anything that happened on Sunday should have changed your opinion of Clinton. Maybe you already didn't like the trade. Fine. But I can't see laying yesterday's debacle on Portis. The whole team stunk from top to bottom. Pick your favorite player and see how they did.

champ was obviously hurt yesterday. so was portis for that matter. he took a shot to the head. can i add another optimistic point and say what a fantastic hit by sean taylor on amani toomer??? anyone else see that? over the middle on the end zone line, taylor just pummeled him. i need to get tivo :frusty:

Did you know who Salavea was prior to last year? I didn't. And Noble was playing hurt, recovering from the knee. All I'm saying is there's hope that these coaches can find the players to make it work. Griffen is a tougher loss to replace. Let's hope he can make it back soon.

I think CP has looked good this year--I don't count yesterday because he only had 4 carries. That's not the problem here--Clinton can do what this team needs. It's all about the O-line. I'm kinda tired of re-hashing that trade. It's done. But I'm not sure why anything that happened on Sunday should have changed your opinion of Clinton. Maybe you already didn't like the trade. Fine. But I can't see laying yesterday's debacle on Portis. The whole team stunk from top to bottom. Pick your favorite player and see how they did.

Actually, I had heard of Joe Salavea prior to his stint here in Washington. Like I said, he along with Griffin and Noble made the stout run-stuffing unit what it was last year. While Noble was returning from a devastating knee injury, he wasn't playing hurt last year.

The problem is that the coaches won't be able to "find" the players to make this work. What they've got on the roster now is all there is. My point is not to expect the same type of performance out of Ryan Boschetti, Cedric Killings and Aki Jones. Those guys are fine just to rotate in to give the starters a breather -- but make no mistake, they are not starters. That was proven when the Giants racked up over 260 yards against us running the ball. To an extent, Williams brought out a whole lot more than anyone expected from the defense last season. But to be honest, the blitzes, the tackling, the convergence to the ball carrier hasn't been all that great this year, and Gregg Williams can't escape blame for that.

You're right about the Portis trade. Until somebody invents time machines, you can't bitch about the past. And you're also right about Portis being "good" this year. But that's just it, he's been ... good. He's not a superstar, and I'll bet you can ask just about any fan, and many within the organization (off the record, mind you) that Portis hasn't been quite the back he was in Denver. Not even close if you ask me. And by pointing that out, I don't pin all the blame for yesterday's loss on him solely. Someone mentioned that Portis just hasn't proven why he was worth all that we gave up to get him. I agree.

Let there be no doubt this was a team loss and no one, NOT ONE PLAYER on this team escapes criticism. My posts would go even longer than they already are if I were to attempt to single out all 53 players and how they shared in the stink they let out at Giants Stadium. By far, this loss looked worse than any of the 10 they dropped all of last year.

While I worry you may be right, Beems, I still think back to our debates prior to last year--we thought that the line defense against the run would be a weak spot, and that turned out not to be the case. So I think these coaches can make do with less than all-star talent there.

As for the stats against the run, what is worrisome is the big play, not the average against. Take out Barbers big runs and the D's average is not bad, even in a game where they ran way more plays than we did. But the big play is killing us. I'm not sure that that's the D-line getting hurt there as much as trouble with the second level--LBs over pursuing, DBs taking bad angles, etc. We need our D linemen to clog things up so our LBs can make plays against the run. I think we have guys that can do that. BUt if the scheme is giving up the big play a few times a game, we are in trouble.

BTW, I didn't think any player escaped YOUR criticism! That was a general comment for those who select a few choice guys to blame, while missing the team's overall failure.

Still, I think we can fix this. We are not as bad as we looked on Sunday. I do believe that Gibbs can find ways to motivate his players and get some positive out of this debacle. We'll see!

Still, I think we can fix this. We are not as bad as we looked on Sunday. I do believe that Gibbs can find ways to motivate his players and get some positive out of this debacle. We'll see!

Yep, might as well get it out of their system, never to return. Every team will have a game where nothing goes right. Happens to the best of them every year -- even the '85 Bears. You'd just rather it happen against an non-conference opponent, not your division rivals!

Don't get me started on the bailey for portis trade. they should have traded him for draft picks.we are a power running team , always have been. and to also give a second rounder on top of that wasn't right