The Anti-Media Media

Joe - we met while covering minicamp this Summer. I enjoyed chatting with you, and believe you're a good guy. I understand your bitterness here (and I don't use that as a loaded word, just an honest one). You have no doubt done a great job over the years covering all things Redskins. By the same token, the staff at extreme (of which I'm obviously one) have been hard at it for 5+ years as well, funding a growing site out of our own pockets, and like you, spending countless hours to provide a quality place for Redskins fans to hang. This was the chance of a lifetime for us, and after a lot of careful consideration, we jumped at it, as we believe any of you would have.

There are a lot of half-truths in play here. First of all, we are not employees of the Redskins. Period. Although its likely we could have gotten a 'payday' from the team, we chose instead to bargain for access, because it was something we could share with our members. The team does not tell us what members can and cannot say. They let us run the site as we always have. Thats a fact.

The article in question is misleading. We have never, ever pretended to be reporters. We are fans. And its that reference point that drives everything we do. Have we cheered in the pressbox? Yes. For a sum total of 5-10 seconds during the stunning Redskins comeback in Dallas, two of our staff made some noise. I think most fans understand losing control in an emotional moment like that and would hardly characterize that as somehow ominous or terrible. I've personally covered 3 of the 5 games, and haven't uttered a peep. Not once. The vast majority of our time (probably > 95%) has been spent on the field, not even in the pressbox. We have done our job professionally, politely, and unobtrusively. The idea that we've been a distraction to members of the media in the pressbox is worse than insinuation - its an outright lie, and one I sincerely believe you would not want to perpetuate.

Finally, if we're part of a Redskins anti-media conspiracy, someone forgot to invite me to the planning sessions. We bash the skins right along with our regular members on whats now the offical messageboard. No one from the Redskins has said a peep to us about it. Not once. Extremeskins is not much different than it ever was. Personally, I have nothing but respect for the pro media guys. I've said so repeatedly and publically, and in person when I've had the chance to meet class acts like Bram Weinstein, Nunyo, Jason C., others.

I like what you produce, as I've told you before - I just think maybe you're getting some bad information along the way. Nothing but respect for you and the Warpath. But give the 'other guys' some credit. We didn't get where we are by being mindless idiots.

Best of luck!

Btw, I'm seriously disappointed that some of you here don't even think of giving us the benefit of the doubt, and leap to the assumption that everything you've 'read' is accurate.

Its not.

And if you knew the truth in this case, you'd feel pretty sheepish about slamming us for it.

I have an advantage in stating my opinion here. I actually know what I'm talking about. Unlike the author and those throwing grenades.

Stuff like this only adds to fuel to the fire for the media that already has a strong dislike for Snyder, and in turn it reflects negatively on the fans. Like it or not, these guys represent our fan base and they certainly aren't doing the fan sites any favors with their negative publicity.

Interesting point. I for one certainly don't care if anything adds fuel to the fire of hatred for Dan Snyder. If journalists want to continue asserting inaccuracies such as the favorite "Dan Snyder is doing a crappy job because he's meddlesome", then they can go ahead for all I care. I don't care if it adds fuel to the fire and makes the media dislike Snyder more. Either the media does their jobs right, or they don't. If they don't do their jobs right, then I say piss off to them. I couldn't care less.

If that reflects poorly on the fan base, now that's something that I could care even less about. I'm interested in good objective journalism first and foremost. So if the middle finger I'm pointing at bad journalists reflects poorly on me as a fan, then let it. Maybe that's a concern to some, but I'm not one of them.



Jealous? Nah. Ticked off that we got the rug pulled out from under us... definitely.

Snyder takes a lot of crap in the press without a doubt, some deserved and some not, but he would have been better served by taking the high road rather than stooping down to the media's often immature and uninformed level.

In the end, I guess I just don't care if Dan Snyder was the nice guy, or if Dan Snyder was a dick. I just care if he:
1) Tries his guts out to put a winning team on the field
2) Makes being a fan of the team more fun. And reading fluffy interviews with Coach Gibbs on ExtremeSkins is fun to me.

Btw, I'm seriously disappointed that some of you here don't even think of giving us the benefit of the doubt, and leap to the assumption that everything you've 'read' is accurate.

Its not.

And if you knew the truth in this case, you'd feel pretty sheepish about slamming us for it.

I have an advantage in stating my opinion here. I actually know what I'm talking about. Unlike the author and those throwing grenades.

Great points are made by Tarhog.

1) Nobody here at the Warpath was in the press box and was there to witness any alleged unprofessional behavior.

2) Just because a company is purchased by another company, that does not mean they then work for the parent company and are under direction from them. Phillip Morris owns Kraft Foods, but employees of Kraft Foods work for Kraft and answer to people at Kraft.

The only two problems i have had with the extremeskins thing with the skins so far is

1. Joe got his fan reporter credits taken away --this i was seriously pissed about

2. Just a couple paragraphs in the one article posted on Redskins.com about arrington-this is such a small thing but while i agree with what the author was saying i don't think that there should be a division among fans between right and wrong. EXPECIALLY on redskins.com. I don't care if people here, at extremeskins, hogs.net, hailredskins or anyother place called a certain group of fans stupid but it being on redskins.com just erked me. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if the opinion is that everyone that disagrees with them are dumbasses, but it shouldn't be on redskins.com. Basically i am much more mad at the redskins than at the writer because the writer has an opinion but we are all fans and the redskins shouldn't start dividing us to build their self image(propaganda)

Other than that 1 big thing about joe and that one article i love everything else. There is nothing not to like as fans as we get interviews, pictures, and media attention.

Joe,

I just wanted to say I'm sorry things didn't work out better for you. I have always promoted your work. When we were able to become part of the Redskins I even engaged in discussions to bring you on board as we needed experience and local guys to help us out since we're missing out on a lot of stuff we could be doing by being short-staffed.

Unfortunately, you developed something of a negative reaction with many at Redskins Park who felt you were obtrusive and self-serving. I have heard stories about how uncomfortable you made some people with your self-promotion to them and that you were absolutely not going to be part of our efforts. I was surprised to hear this and think no less of you for having heard it.

I just think it's unfortunate you have developed a negative view of us for accomplishing something you wanted to accomplish but were unable to. One thing going for us, to be fair, is the team was never looking for "fan journalists". It had all the journalists it could handle and it had all the fans it could handle. It didn't need fans acting like reporters. It wanted fans acting like fans.

As you know, the "press" box is not just for "press". It's for PR folks, scouts, writers from team sites, etc. There are lots of people who are not in the professional media, with strong team ties, who are in every press box there is. The media has rules it is responsible for abiding by. A team scout isn't bound by the same. I think you know this. I hope you do.

I'm sorry you feel as upset with us. We've always considered you a friend who we've promoted. We will continue to do so. With hope, you'll come to forgive us.

So? Why would we care about that? Sure, OK, it's a dick move and unprofessional. So what?

Could it be that some people here at the Warpath are a wee bit jealous of the guys at ExtremeSkins? Is that why we're upset that they disturbed the journalists while they were writing?

I don't get the beef. I don't see why anyone here would care if someone is in the press box yelling and disturbing anybody.

I don't get why I would be jealous of them. I was doing the whole "hanging out with the players and coaches" thing a long time before they came around, and I'm sure I'll be a doing a lot more of that in the future, regardless of whether I'm directly affiliated with the team or not.

My beef is, in fact, with the manner in which the Redskins have conducted their entire anti-med... err... "media relations" operation. The ExtremeSkins situation is a prime example of why the media and the Redskins have been at odds for so long now. The behavior or those fans in the pressbox isn't unlike the behavior of Snyder and Swanson towards the press corps. In fact, it's quite representative.

Apparently, Messrs Snyder and Swanson aren't familiar with the old adage, "kill them with kindness." They're taking the 21st century craze of media-bashing to new, unexplored heights.

I'm sure that will win them a lot of fans in the press. I'm sure Redskins fans won't care. I'm sure and everyone will stop reading all news sources other than those directly from the team, and will chuckle happily right along with Larry Michael as he feeds them the "unfiltered" daily scoop of fluff straight from Redskins Park. I'm sure they'll grin smugly along with good Ol' Art Mills as he boisterously details his latest anti-media antics. I'm sure nobody will know anything other than this: the Redskins are a great, wonderful and beneficent franchise, with only the most marvelous of owners, whose sole raison d'etre is to make the fans happy. Ignorance truly is bliss, isn't it, Redskins fans?

I just want to make it clear that I'm well aware, as I'm sure Joe is, that the piece written about ES is full of inaccuracies. I guess it just sparked off a debate is all. It still doesn't change the way we think, but again we're aware the article was a hack job.

Joe - we met while covering minicamp this Summer. I enjoyed chatting with you, and believe you're a good guy. I understand your bitterness here (and I don't use that as a loaded word, just an honest one). You have no doubt done a great job over the years covering all things Redskins. By the same token, the staff at extreme (of which I'm obviously one) have been hard at it for 5+ years as well, funding a growing site out of our own pockets, and like you, spending countless hours to provide a quality place for Redskins fans to hang. This was the chance of a lifetime for us, and after a lot of careful consideration, we jumped at it, as we believe any of you would have.

There are a lot of half-truths in play here. First of all, we are not employees of the Redskins. Period. Although its likely we could have gotten a 'payday' from the team, we chose instead to bargain for access, because it was something we could share with our members. The team does not tell us what members can and cannot say. They let us run the site as we always have. Thats a fact.

The article in question is misleading. We have never, ever pretended to be reporters. We are fans. And its that reference point that drives everything we do. Have we cheered in the pressbox? Yes. For a sum total of 5-10 seconds during the stunning Redskins comeback in Dallas, two of our staff made some noise. I think most fans understand losing control in an emotional moment like that and would hardly characterize that as somehow ominous or terrible. I've personally covered 3 of the 5 games, and haven't uttered a peep. Not once. The vast majority of our time (probably > 95%) has been spent on the field, not even in the pressbox. We have done our job professionally, politely, and unobtrusively. The idea that we've been a distraction to members of the media in the pressbox is worse than insinuation - its an outright lie, and one I sincerely believe you would not want to perpetuate.

Finally, if we're part of a Redskins anti-media conspiracy, someone forgot to invite me to the planning sessions. We bash the skins right along with our regular members on whats now the offical messageboard. No one from the Redskins has said a peep to us about it. Not once. Extremeskins is not much different than it ever was. Personally, I have nothing but respect for the pro media guys. I've said so repeatedly and publically, and in person when I've had the chance to meet class acts like Bram Weinstein, Nunyo, Jason C., others.

I like what you produce, as I've told you before - I just think maybe you're getting some bad information along the way. Nothing but respect for you and the Warpath. But give the 'other guys' some credit. We didn't get where we are by being mindless idiots.

Best of luck!
Anybody think they'll be a another article explaining the other side of the story as Tarhog as explained it? I bet not...

I read the article again and it is obviously a hack job. The entire thing is full of loaded terms like 'bashing', 'anti-media', 'venom', etc... I could name 10 others.

Joe brings up obviously valid points. Cheering in the press box by journalists should be unacceptable. The question is should the exteremskins reps be treated as equals to the other journalists? Should they be held to the same standards and abide by the same rules? Well to me it seems obvious that the main stream media types don't consider them peers. So why is it that they seem to want them to abide by their rules? Is there no room for different types of 'journalism' here? I would totally and unabashedly agree with Joe if everyone was presenting the extremeskins guys as fair and balanced 'journalists' but no one has said this. They are reporting for a fan site. A fan site by defention means the readers by and large are supporters and tend to see the team through colored glasses. The reporting by association will be colored and everyone knows it and accepts it. Heck they expect it.

I think the real question needs to be should they be allowed in the press box? It seems this is the crux of the discussion regarding the media v. exteremskins. I say yes because to me mainstram media has done such a poor job of doing the job of reporting facts, being fair and offering a clear and honest representation of the entire story so many times I have lost respect for much of them. They do not in my opinion have the right to their own quiet little lair where they can't be trusted to be honest. If they could act in a true professional manner which did not impune their own integrity then I'd be willing to respect them a little more and give them a chance to do their job in peace but until then they get no such respect and have no right in my eyes to complain about anything.

as an aside:
Why is it that so many reporters seem to feel they always have the right to whatever they want (always in the name of a story) but never feel they need to answer for what they do (when they are often so wrong and/or biased)?

Anybody think they'll be a another article explaining the other side of the story as Tarhog as explained it? I bet not...

I read the article again and it is obviously a hack job. The entire thing is full of loaded terms like 'bashing', 'anti-media', 'venom', etc... I could name 10 others.

Joe brings up obviously valid points. Cheering in the press box by journalists should be unacceptable. The question is should the exteremskins reps be treated as equals to the other journalists? Should they be held to the same standards and abide by the same rules? Well to me it seems obvious that the main stream media types don't consider them peers. So why is it that they seem to want them to abide by their rules? Is there no room for different types of 'journalism' here? I would totally and unabashedly agree with Joe if everyone was presenting the extremeskins guys as fair and balanced 'journalists' but no one has said this. They are reporting for a fan site. A fan site by defention means the readers by and large are supporters and tend to see the team through colored glasses. The reporting by association will be colored and everyone knows it and accepts it. Heck they expect it.

I think the real question needs to be should they be allowed in the press box? It seems this is the crux of the discussion regarding the media v. exteremskins. I say yes because to me mainstram media has done such a poor job of doing the job of reporting facts, being fair and offering a clear and honest representation of the entire story so many times I have lost respect for much of them. They do not in my opinion have the right to their own quiet little lair where they can't be trusted to be honest. If they could act in a true professional manner which did not impune their own integrity then I'd be willing to respect them a little more and give them a chance to do their job in peace but until then they get no such respect and have no right in my eyes to complain about anything.

as an aside:
Why is it that so many reporters seem to feel they always have the right to whatever they want (always in the name of a story) but never feel they need to answer for what they do (when they are often so wrong and/or biased)?

Great post.