do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

Isn't Barrow's release fee about the same as his salary for this year?

Maybe Canuck can shed some light on that one... You around buddy?

Canuck, will this be an overall positive or negative move on the salary cap?

6) If you're going to say getting Portis was a mistake, you're just nuts. I don't know if that's what you're saying, so I won't put words in your mouth. But that trade with Denver was pure genius. Bailey got killed all year long. Portis ground out 1300 yards despite being in a misfit scheme. If you want to see how we made out, check him out this year in the zone blocking, stretched out scheme. And plus, look who the Broncos got with that 2nd round pick. Tatum Bell. They were so happy with him, that they felt the need to go sign Ron Dayne and draft Maurice Clarett this year.

The Gibbs front office is the best we've had in years. Count your blessings and actually think about what you're saying.[/QUOTE]

First off I love Gibbs and would never call for his head under any circumstances. However, I do think the Portis trade was a mistake. Not that I think we needed Bailey. I just think the Redskins given the market overpaid for a RB. Edge & Alexander can not even bring a #3 pick back in trade right now, yet we traded Bailey and a #2 pick for Portis only 1 year ago. And to top it off he is not even a good fit for the offense that Gibbs wanted to run. Alexander would have been the perfect fit, but the Redskins can't get him becasue they already invested 50 million in Portis. Look maybe Portis will have a great year this year with the changes to the offense, but the fact is we still could have gotten a top 5 RB in the NFL for less than half of what we gave up for Portis. Does even the biggest Portis fan out there think he is worth over 2 times as much as Alexander or Edge?

According to the cap info, it is. 2.157 total hit this year, 2.083 release fee. If that is the case, then this is almost certainly coming from Barrow and not the team. It would indicate that the situation is likely one where he doesn't think he's going to win the starting job and would like one more decent signing bonus (2-3 mil) from someone before he retires. Or he thinks he can still play and thinks he can start somewhere. If he's able to play, the team wouldn't release him if he wanted to be here and play backup. Keeping a vet like that on your team is worth the 70k difference if he can play.

Folks, Im looking at the HISTORY of the front office over the last 5-8 years with Cerrato and Snyder at the helm. Now its Gibbs, Cerrato, and Snyder.

"I think we ought to implement a new rule that there can be no bitching and moaning unless there is proven reason to."

Well guess what jackass, Ive got a reason to! Look at the personell moves these idiots have made, that's why we are in the hole we are in. Thanks to Cerrato and Snyder, the following free agents and drafts have built our team (not).

No reason for us to be calling each other idiots, jackasses, meatheads, etc.


Stephen Alexander (2nd round 1998)
Skip Hicks (3rd round 1998)
Mark Fischer (5th round 1998)
Nate Stimson (4th round 1999)
Derek G. Smith (5th round 1999)
Lloyd Harrison (3rd round 2000)
Michael Moore (4th round 2000)
Quincy Sanders (5th round 2000)
Sage Rosenfels (4th Round 2001)

Michael Moore found his true calling making politically charged movies!

Our middle round picks SUCKED for years!!! This is partially the reason we can't build a team. Secondly, lets look at the free agents Danny Boy and Vinny Cerrato have brought in:

Mark Carrier
Deion Sanders
Bruce Smith
Marco Coleman
Irving Fryar
Jeff George
Andre Reed
Dana Stubblefield
Jerimiah Trotter

Trotter was a young, all-pro linebacker entering his prime when he got here. Who was to know he'd tear up his knee. I don't think Fryar or Reed had any sort of financial impact on the team really. Stubblefield was a bust. The rest were brought in here basically to be quick fixes, get us that elusive ring we fans had grown accustomed to but hadn't sniffed in years. It was a poorly planned quick fix solution by Snydato (Snyder and Cerrato) but also poor coaching factors in as does Eddie Murray and all those other kickers missing them damn field goals that year.

I'll bet we are still paying on some of those loser underachievers! Now, some of you have been saying, well, siging Barrow was a great move at the time because he had no history of injury. To that I say, he was freakin 34 years old, what the hell did you freakin expect? A middle linebacker is 34 years old and we sign him, not to the verteran minimum, but to a 6 year $13 million dollar contract with a 2.5 million dollar signing bonus! Give me a break, its not like he was a kicker, he was a freakin middle linebacker, one of the most physically demanding positions on the field and we signed a 34 year old and gave him a BIG contract for his age. Oh Ive got a reason to bitch and moan, all Redskin fans do.

I guess Crazy Canuck can respond to this portion and whether or not salary cap wise this was really that big a hit. I think they, understandably, expected 2 to 3 years of solid production from Barrow based on his history. And who knows, it still might happen.

Show me a coach who has won a superbowl with complete say over personnell decisions. It hasn't happened. Gibbs, Snyder and Cerrato sold the farm for Brunnell, and traded a 3rd round pick. Then, when they couldve done the Ports/Bailey deal straight up, they threw in another pick. Then they signed a 34 year old free agent middle linebacker and overpaid for him. Then they mishandled the Rod Gardner situation AND the Laverneous Coles situation. So there is evidence that we need a GM.

Mike Shanahan? I'm actually not even positive about that one. Didn't know we could have done the Portis/Bailey deal straight up.

I don't think Shanahan had complete say so over all personnell until after he won his SBs, but I could be wrong.

First off I love Gibbs and would never call for his head under any circumstances. However, I do think the Portis trade was a mistake. Not that I think we needed Bailey. I just think the Redskins given the market overpaid for a RB. Edge & Alexander can not even bring a #3 pick back in trade right now, yet we traded Bailey and a #2 pick for Portis only 1 year ago. And to top it off he is not even a good fit for the offense that Gibbs wanted to run. Alexander would have been the perfect fit, but the Redskins can't get him becasue they already invested 50 million in Portis. Look maybe Portis will have a great year this year with the changes to the offense, but the fact is we still could have gotten a top 5 RB in the NFL for less than half of what we gave up for Portis. Does even the biggest Portis fan out there think he is worth over 2 times as much as Alexander or Edge?
Yeah, I do think that Portis is worth more than over 2 times as much as Alexander or Edge. Why, you may ask? Because Alexander and James are both 27 years old, and as stats show us in the NFL a RB hits his decline when he is around 30. So, that being said, and if the stats hold true, then that would mean that we would only get 3 good years before Alexander and James start to fall off. Where Portis is only 23 years old, and if you go by that rule of thumb we should get 7 good years out of Portis. I think that people forget that Portis is still so young. But that is my opinion.

First off I love Gibbs and would never call for his head under any circumstances. However, I do think the Portis trade was a mistake. Not that I think we needed Bailey. I just think the Redskins given the market overpaid for a RB. Edge & Alexander can not even bring a #3 pick back in trade right now, yet we traded Bailey and a #2 pick for Portis only 1 year ago. And to top it off he is not even a good fit for the offense that Gibbs wanted to run. Alexander would have been the perfect fit, but the Redskins can't get him becasue they already invested 50 million in Portis. Look maybe Portis will have a great year this year with the changes to the offense, but the fact is we still could have gotten a top 5 RB in the NFL for less than half of what we gave up for Portis. Does even the biggest Portis fan out there think he is worth over 2 times as much as Alexander or Edge?

OK fair enough, Alexander would be a better fit for running the counter treys and pounding the ball inside. But I don't really understand your argument. If you didn't trade Bailey for Portis, what would you have done with Bailey? He was about to command a $9 million hit to our salary cap. If you had kept Bailey you wouldn't have the cap room to acquire an Alexander. And if you had traded Bailey for Alexander, you still would have been trading Bailey for a guy who you mention can't even fetch a 3rd rounder this year.

Secondly, where do you come up with this: "Does even the biggest Portis fan out there think he is worth over 2 times as much as Alexander or Edge?"

If we acquired Edge or Alexander, they would have demanded a new contract just like Portis did, just like Rod Gardner is, and just like Coles demanded from the Jets when we traded him for Moss. When players get traded, they want new contracts. So if we did trade Bailey for Edge or Alexander, we still would have ponied up $50 million for them, just like we did for Portis.

I honestly would rather have Sean Alexander than Portis, the guy is a machine. I'd be ecstatic giving up Bailey and a second rounder for Alexander, just as I am for Portis. Keep in mind, Bailey would have been a much bigger cap hit than Alexander. Trading Bailey freed up the room to fit Portis, Sean Springs, and Cornelius Griffin all into the cap space that Bailey would have occupied. You have to look at the whole picture.

I don't see how allowing a player to look for a trade is tipping your hand? How else do trades get done? If you just release him what's the difference? Except now you know for sure that you will recieve nothing for him, Gardner has been a big problem in all this he believes he's a TO talent, and regardless of whether or not teams know he will be released they think so highly of him that they refuse to give up a pick of any kind to secure his services for 1 year at a very reasonable price, that's Rod Gardner for you. A lot like Brunell, who was going to be released and we swooped in and gave up a fortune for him, now that was a joke!

As for Barrow, he was a good signing, how is the front office to know he would develope tendinitis in his knee? Obviously the coaches believe they have to finally cut ties with the guy, what is wrong with putting a feeler out there to see if we may get some kind of compensation back? Nothing gained, nothing lost.

I will again state that given the cap situation I can see, it would seem that Barrow is wanting to look around, and not the staff wanting him to go.