do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

The Skins are about $1.65M under the cap right now.

Gardner will clear up $2M in cap space and at this point I'm thinking the team's willingness to part with Barrow is more cap related than anything.

Dumping Barrow will free up another $1.74M giving the team plenty of room to get the deals done with the rooks.

If we're looking at the record of the GIBBS FRONT OFFICE, it looks pretty good:

Griffin - hit
Springs - hit
M Washington - hit
Portis - hit
C Cooley - hit
S Taylor - hit
Walt Harris - hit
Salavea - big hit for the money
Brunell - miss
Barrow - miss



Best point made on this thread! Awsome job Schneed10! As to Barrow and 50/50, it makes not one dit of bifference to me how it's handled! We simply recoup the salary cap room!

Every single team has its share of bad moves, we're no different. But looking at Schneeds post, you can see that we have had a TON of quality guys brought in. I dont know if I agree with Taylro being a hit, I think the jury is still out on him, but I wouldnt call him a bad pickup either.

Obviously Brunell was a stupid move from the get go, I didnt understand that one form the begining. But I dont think Barrow was that stupid of a move. It wasent even a gamble when we signed him. We were all excited to get a quality, veteran MLB, and things went south with his heath. It happens. I dont think we should crucify the front office for antyhing that happened this offseason.

Its not the front offices fault that L. Coles wanted to leave. We got the best we could for him, and while that situation still irks me, I dont blame the front office for anything.

Its not the front offices fault that Sean Taylor did what he did. They cant follow these guys every hour of every day, they are supposed to be adults.

Its not the front offices fault that Lavar Arrington's agents are idiots.

With that, I dont understand where this "horrific offseason" has come from. This was the offseason we have all wanted, some low key signings, and not trying to bring in over the hill losers. I'm not pissed at our front office for anything that happend this year.

it's not that im pissed at the front office, i am happy we had a low key offseason, but it's more what happened off the field during the offseason. the arrington thing, coles hating the team, gardner requesting a trade, taylor getting arrested, not resigning smoot and pierce, it's a whole combination. i would love to have an offseason where we are low key, where we didn't have any off the field distractions either.

Yeah I suppose we have to wait and see how Taylor plays this year, and whether or not his legal situation is a distraction. And certainly, if he goes to jail for three years, the drafting of Sean Taylor would be the ultimate "miss". But from what I've read, it sounds like Taylor will be acquitted or the case will be dropped, since the state's evidence is a little on the weak side.

Even with Taylor's trouble though, he still was a first alternate for the Pro Bowl in his ROOKIE season, and the players in front of him were named Brian Dawkins, Roy Williams, and Michael Lewis. Pretty good company. I'm counting on him improving and continuing to play for the Skins.

Besides, player acquisition NEVER tells the full story. We love to look back on the players the front offices acquired and say well that one worked out, or that other one was a bust... etcetera. But the quality of the coaching and the ability of the coaching staff to teach those acquired players how to play is just as important as anything. It's no surprise that just about every player acquired by Spurrier was a bust, he couldn't teach them diddily poo. Now look at the defensive guys brought in; even guys previously viewed as schmucks like Joe Salavea'a are tearing it up thanks to quality instruction and coaching. Even guys previously buried on the Skins roster started to shine, like Pierce, Ryan Clark, and Lemar Marshall.

The NFL is a coach's league, player acquisition will only take you as far as the coaches allow it to, after all those acquired players have to fit into and perform in the coaching scheme. Changes to the front office are not the answer; time is the answer. Just give Gibbs a little time, he'll have a winner before we know it.

I dont understand where this "horrific offseason" has come from. This was the offseason we have all wanted, some low key signings, and not trying to bring in over the hill losers. I'm not pissed at our front office for anything that happend this year.

If the past has taught us nothing else it's that we shouldn't judge the offseason until the next season (or two) has actually been played

The NFL is a coach's league, player acquisition will only take you as far as the coaches allow it to, after all those acquired players have to fit into and perform in the coaching scheme. Changes to the front office are not the answer; time is the answer. Just give Gibbs a little time, he'll have a winner before we know it.

Well said. Team chemistry is the factor that takes good teams through the playoffs. Team chemistry can only be built with time, as more or less talented players learn their niches in the system and become accountable to their teammates and coaches. We had it on defense last year. We just have to build it on offense with the players we have.

As to front office decisions... those are best judged in hindsight, as has been stated. But as Schneed so aptly described above, player acquisition is given too much attention by the fans. If we had won a few more of the close games last year, gotten into the playoffs, and somehow managed to go all the way, the Brunell situation would be perceived completely differently. Everyone would be talking about the great leadership and locker-room presence he brought to the team.

It all changes when you have team chemistry and string together wins. And I assert that the personnel doesn't matter as much as we think.

Every single team has its share of bad moves, we're no different. But looking at Schneeds post, you can see that we have had a TON of quality guys brought in. I dont know if I agree with Taylro being a hit, I think the jury is still out on him, but I wouldnt call him a bad pickup either.

Obviously Brunell was a stupid move from the get go, I didnt understand that one form the begining. But I dont think Barrow was that stupid of a move. It wasent even a gamble when we signed him. We were all excited to get a quality, veteran MLB, and things went south with his heath. It happens. I dont think we should crucify the front office for antyhing that happened this offseason.

Its not the front offices fault that L. Coles wanted to leave. We got the best we could for him, and while that situation still irks me, I dont blame the front office for anything.

Its not the front offices fault that Sean Taylor did what he did. They cant follow these guys every hour of every day, they are supposed to be adults.

Its not the front offices fault that Lavar Arrington's agents are idiots.

With that, I dont understand where this "horrific offseason" has come from. This was the offseason we have all wanted, some low key signings, and not trying to bring in over the hill losers. I'm not pissed at our front office for anything that happend this year.

Also having an offseason like this brings out some heavy media bias too. I mean it always seems its lose-lose when it comes to us.

Really?
Then by all means lets make sure the skins change everything they do so that aren't the laughing stocks on all these websites. I mean that's what they should care about right? Being the laughing stock of websites. Yeam that proves they need a GM. I love how everyone is bashing the decisions from this off season and they haven't even played a game yet. I think we ought to implement a new rule that there can be no bitching and moaning unless there is proven reason to. I am not saying that they have done perfectly this off season. I am saying that not one of us has any idea how these moves will pan out. If we make the damn super bowl will all you shut the f$%^ up? Actually if we make the super bowl will you apologize for being idiots? Not saying you are idiots but you could turn out to be totally wrong(making you and idot) or right(making you a genius) but unless you are psychic then stop proclaiming we need to fix a problem we don;t even knwo we if we have.

Folks, Im looking at the HISTORY of the front office over the last 5-8 years with Cerrato and Snyder at the helm. Now its Gibbs, Cerrato, and Snyder.

"I think we ought to implement a new rule that there can be no bitching and moaning unless there is proven reason to."

Well guess what jackass, Ive got a reason to! Look at the personell moves these idiots have made, that's why we are in the hole we are in. Thanks to Cerrato and Snyder, the following free agents and drafts have built our team (not).

Stephen Alexander (2nd round 1998)
Skip Hicks (3rd round 1998)
Mark Fischer (5th round 1998)
Nate Stimson (4th round 1999)
Derek G. Smith (5th round 1999)
Lloyd Harrison (3rd round 2000)
Michael Moore (4th round 2000)
Quincy Sanders (5th round 2000)
Sage Rosenfels (4th Round 2001)

Our middle round picks SUCKED for years!!! This is partially the reason we can't build a team. Secondly, lets look at the free agents Danny Boy and Vinny Cerrato have brought in:

Mark Carrier
Deion Sanders
Bruce Smith
Marco Coleman
Irving Fryar
Jeff George
Andre Reed
Dana Stubblefield
Jerimiah Trotter

I'll bet we are still paying on some of those loser underachievers! Now, some of you have been saying, well, siging Barrow was a great move at the time because he had no history of injury. To that I say, he was freakin 34 years old, what the hell did you freakin expect? A middle linebacker is 34 years old and we sign him, not to the verteran minimum, but to a 6 year $13 million dollar contract with a 2.5 million dollar signing bonus! Give me a break, its not like he was a kicker, he was a freakin middle linebacker, one of the most physically demanding positions on the field and we signed a 34 year old and gave him a BIG contract for his age. Oh Ive got a reason to bitch and moan, all Redskin fans do.

"If we make the damn super bowl will all you shut the f$%^ up? Actually if we make the super bowl will you apologize for being idiots? Not saying you are idiots but you could turn out to be totally wrong(making you and idot) or right(making you a genius) but unless you are psychic then stop proclaiming we need to fix a problem we don;t even knwo we if we have."

Nice. You disagree with me so you attack me instead of looking for a counter argument. Gibbs does have this team going the right direction, but he is far from bullet proof in his role as personnell evaluator. Show me a coach who has won a superbowl with complete say over personnell decisions. It hasn't happened. Gibbs, Snyder and Cerrato sold the farm for Brunnell, and traded a 3rd round pick. Then, when they couldve done the Ports/Bailey deal straight up, they threw in another pick. Then they signed a 34 year old free agent middle linebacker and overpaid for him. Then they mishandled the Rod Gardner situation AND the Laverneous Coles situation. So there is evidence that we need a GM.

I love Joe Gibbs. He is one of the best coaches of all time, but he should have a full time GM, that's all Im saying. This is not a site where we all drink the kool aid and say how great we are, we should be able to disagree without insulting one another.

I love how this argument comes up every couple weeks. It's been overdue for a while now.
I can't see how anyone could disagree with the getting rid of Coles deal. He didn't want to be here and the Skins didn't want him. Both Gibbs and Coles attempted to makeup and I think in the end you have to admin both guys are stand up guys with a decent amount character. It wasn't going to work. Now I'll jump on the band wagon who quibble with making the trade to pick up Moss and wasting that cap space but I'll also admit that's a move that none of us can possibly judge as good or bad yet. My gut says we didn't pull it off well but we still need to play the games.
I am convinced that Barrow was potentially our BEST pickup last season. He was a multiple time pro bowler who led his team in tackles for 3+ years. He had monster seasons and didn't miss games. Plain and simple it should have worked. 9 times out of 10 that move works. The Skins got stuck with the 1 out 10 time that it backfired. Luck of the draw.
Brunell was a horible pick up and we all knew it when it happened. That was a serious brain fart for ole coach gibbs. That's one strike but it's the only strike you can attribute as a mistake in judgement. Now this year we have a couple candidates for the brain fart category. Giving up Smoot and Pierce could be problems BUT I'd suggest that Greg williams did a fantastic job limited talent last year and there's no reason to suspect any different this year with a similar level of talent.

Simply the jury is still out on this past off season and it's way too premature to suggest we need a GM. Lets get through some games before we start making declarations.

Now what other good topics can we discuss that are past due for some rumbling. Spurrier anyone?