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SunnySide 03-11-2021, 12:41 PM Yes really, and yes it is likely most women who get a late term abortion have to for medical reasons. You said it yourself - most.
Vermont had 1204 abortions in 2018. 20 were performed at 21 weeks or later.
I would assume that those 20 involved women who wanted to carry to birth but had to abort for medical reasons. But idk.
Abortions after 21 weeks or so is so small a percent, I dont think that abortion laws should be based on that 1% and ignoring the other 99%. .. unless you think all abortions should be illegal, then you tunnel vision on that 1% as guiding your argument
nonniey 03-11-2021, 01:16 PM Vermont had 1204 abortions in 2018. 20 were performed at 21 weeks or later.
I would assume that those 20 involved women who wanted to carry to birth but had to abort for medical reasons. But idk.
Abortions after 21 weeks or so is so small a percent, I dont think that abortion laws should be based on that 1% and ignoring the other 99%. .. unless you think all abortions should be illegal, then you tunnel vision on that 1% as guiding your argument
So what your are saying is that you think it should be legal to abort a healthy fetus up to the minute before it would be born? That is what it is legal to do in Vermont and some other states (note it is not legal in any European country). All 20 may have needed to get a late term abortion (Like you I don't know) I wouldn't want to stop that. I just want restrictions in place that would make it illegal to abort a late term healthy fetus that is no threat to the physical life of the mother. IMO, the argument that so few of those occur that it isn't important doesn't really hold water.
SunnySide 03-11-2021, 01:36 PM [QUOTE=nonniey;1278984I just want restrictions in place that would make it illegal to abort a late term healthy fetus that is no threat to the physical life of the mother. IMO, the argument that so few of those occur that it isn't important doesn't really hold water.[/QUOTE]
Yes, id want those same restrictions. After 22-24 weeks, it would need to be medically necessary.
1/3 of clinics cant do abortions after 20 weeks and only 16% clinics do abortions at 24 weeks.
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What I was saying is that the 1% of late term abortions, (seemingly done bc birth abnormalities) shouldnt drive the discussion that effects the other vast majority 99%.
edit - this is just my opinion, I do respect pro-lifers opinion and view point
nonniey 03-11-2021, 02:14 PM Yes, id want those same restrictions. After 22-24 weeks, it would need to be medically necessary.
1/3 of clinics cant do abortions after 20 weeks and only 16% clinics do abortions at 24 weeks.
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What I was saying is that the 1% of late term abortions, (seemingly done bc birth abnormalities) shouldnt drive the discussion that effects the other vast majority 99%.
edit - this is just my opinion, I do respect pro-lifers opinion and view point
Well that was the point of my original post that the extreme elements on both sides drive the argument. So the fight is always no restrictions at all versus total ban and the vast majority of most Americans are opposed to both those positions.
SunnySide 03-11-2021, 02:58 PM Well that was the point of my original post that the extreme elements on both sides drive the argument. So the fight is always no restrictions at all versus total ban and the vast majority of most Americans are opposed to both those positions.
Pro Choice does not want no restrictions free for all. Thats just not true.
Pro choice wants Roe v Wade to be followed. No restrictions on 1st T, State can put restrictions on 2nd T in name of womans health only, States can ban 3rd T abortions unless an abortion is only way to save woman from dying.
Thats why the vast majority of Americans are pro choice.
There are not 2 polar extremes here, only one.
mooby 03-11-2021, 07:03 PM ^^ I second that, as a guy I think we should say the F out of reproductive rights issues.
+2
Imagine the outcry if women tried to pass a law restricting men's reproductive rights, they would immediately be ridiculed and ostracized (deservedly so).
sdskinsfan2001 03-12-2021, 01:23 AM Chico?? Buehler? Buehler???
I actually finally drove up to check in on a buddy this week that just completely disappeared off the grid. Like had to sneak in thru the gate when someone left. Haven't heard from him since before Christmas. Turns out he was perfectly fine and chose to just disappear and not let any of us know he wasn't talking to us anymore.
COVID has me thinking worst case scenario when someone's actions change. Chico, hope all is well.
JamF has spurts of posting regularly, then not very often. Haven't heard from him in a while either. Hopefully my fellow so-cal brother is also doing well.
Hope everyone else is doing well too. Hopefully we're all finally on the path towards normalcy, or at least the new normalcy. I'd go watch Britney Spears in concert at this point.
sdskinsfan2001 03-12-2021, 04:50 AM How is allowing abortions about re-productive rights? Women and men in this country have all the re-productive rights in the world to: be celebate; if you have sex, be smart, etc, etc.
The term 'Re" in general would imply you're trying to replicate something. Reproduction would imply you're trying to re-create life. Not kill life.
Abortion is the exact opposite of reproducing or reproductive.
I'd also say that allowing women to have 100% control over aborting her and the father's baby, is a law against men's "reproductive" rights. Believe it or not, only the woman mother can still actually physically birth children, but the male dad is still the dad. Why does his opinion not matter? Or what if the dad wants the abortion, but the mom doesn't, if she (rightfully) chooses life, does he have absolutely zero responsibility for raising the child, at least financially? Of-fucking-course not.
All this talk about the extremes is just that. Most abortions are done early and due to one or both people not wanting to be accountable for his/her/their decisions. I'd guess that men are more responsible for this. And that's sad, but the other alternative isn't better either.
#life
mooby 03-12-2021, 06:12 AM How is allowing abortions about re-productive rights? Women and men in this country have all the re-productive rights in the world to: be celebate; if you have sex, be smart, etc, etc.
The term 'Re" in general would imply you're trying to replicate something. Reproduction would imply you're trying to re-create life. Not kill life.
Abortion is the exact opposite of reproducing or reproductive.
I'd also say that allowing women to have 100% control over aborting her and the father's baby, is a law against men's "reproductive" rights. Believe it or not, only the woman mother can still actually physically birth children, but the male dad is still the dad. Why does his opinion not matter? Or what if the dad wants the abortion, but the mom doesn't, if she (rightfully) chooses life, does he have absolutely zero responsibility for raising the child, at least financially? Of-fucking-course not.
All this talk about the extremes is just that. Most abortions are done early and due to one or both people not wanting to be accountable for his/her/their decisions. I'd guess that men are more responsible for this. And that's sad, but the other alternative isn't better either.
#life
We're not here to argue semantics, reproductive rights is just a term used to talk about abortion.
The hilarious thing about this argument is I doubt you'd find anyone on this board who thinks a woman should be allowed to get a third trimester abortion for no reason at all. Of course at that stage it should only be if the woman or baby's life is at risk. But the reality is you have some people on your team that want all abortion outlawed. They have no interest in conceding anything. They intentionally left out exceptions for rape or incest in Arkansas, how the fuck is that having this debate in good faith? It's not. So they can go fuck themselves, and if any conservative wants to fight the good fight with them they know where they stand too.
Yes the dad's opinion should matter but that's a more nuanced argument. If the woman doesn't want an abortion but the guy makes it clear from the start he's not going to support her or the kid she should know what she's getting into. But I put blame on the dad too for not wanting to wrap it up while he's getting some ass. We know the risks when we choose not to wear a condom. #pulloutgamestrong
+1 hope Chico is okay too.
Giantone 03-12-2021, 07:03 AM +2
Imagine the outcry if women tried to pass a law restricting men's reproductive rights, they would immediately be ridiculed and ostracized (deservedly so).
Bingo! Johnny tell the Man what he has won!
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