WFT's Off-Season Thread

No way Allen is JAG. He is probably also not nearly as good as the money he commands. Not an easy decision, think it comes down to what he can be signed for. Dumping Moses' salary makes keeping Allen much more probable, or at least possible.

I suppose this was really what I was trying to say about Allen. He simply isn't worth paying top DT money which is what he will probably ask for.

And I stand by what I said - he is our 3rd best DT.

John Allen is pivotal to the dline and the leadership here. We need to re up him soon

He hasn’t missed a start in 6 years, and the money is not an issue. It is a strange situation. And honestly who gives a shit about a pff grade. The guy is our starting right tackle and better than anyone else on our team to currently to man that position. This is not progress, it is a problem. A weird, unexpected problem.

Moses gets blown up off the edge more than you'd like. He is steady, but not elite. The question isn't do you like Moses, in a vacuum, but do you like Moses, in terms of his opportunity cost, other players, short term and long. He is due $9.65M this year with $1.9M dead cap if cut, $7.75M savings. He is also due $7.75M next year but can be cut then with no dead money. Moses is solid but not a world beater, and is a much better run blocker than pass blocker. I prefer edge blockers who can pass block first. So let's rephrase the question:

We just signed a viable above average starting LT for $5M, and have three viable guys at RT, Cosmi, Charles, Lucas, earning less total than Moses. The smart long term move is to cut Moses after this year, if you can get a 4th or 6th round pick instead, that is a free pick, trying to trade him old-school Pats style move. FO again smartly recognizes that our OL was a paper tiger that got owned by better teams and is systematically improving upgrading, by addition subtraction. Give them loads of credit for this. You can get 80% of the production of Moses, and pass blocking just as good, for half the price or less, while emphasizing long term. This is another incredibly smart move that shows our FO gets it. Whatever Moses was in his late 20s, he is losing a step, in pass protection especially. And that is playing next to Scherff.

Not paying Moses saves just under $17M over two years. That is a lot of money for a RT. In a vacuum, Moses is more dependable and proven than other options, but long term, that $17M might be the difference between keeping Allen or not. Jonathan Allen is 26 and if we sign a 4-5 year deal, we get him for his entire prime. I would prefer Allen and Charles or Lucas or Cosmi at RT and Allen resigned, or another STUD FA next year in their prime, versus Moses at RT and no Allen or stud FA. So would I rather pay an above average but not elite RT who is 31 this year and 32 next, or lockup a key contributor Allen long term for the rest of their prime, while plugging in a very solid option at RT with only modest drop-off, and virtually none in pass blocking which matters most?

Trying to trade Moses is a super smart long-term move, which shows FO gets the hard-nosed long-term realities of salary cap. And remember, all those FAs we've signed with lowball deals this year balloon years after. Love the idea of rolling over money to next year. We can only hope we find a sucker to bite on a trade. Doubt we will, most teams probably wait for us to just cut him, but if we can get even a 5th rounder I take the trade in a heartbeat. Love this trade, and love trying to rebuild OL to make it dominant like DL. Can't be afraid to give younger guys reps. My dream scenario would be Cosmi LT, Charles RT, but that is probably a pipe dream, both winning starting jobs.

Well damn if WFT isn't doing the right things

https://theathletic.com/2589621/?source=fbpcadsbc&ad_id=23847485685420092&fbclid=IwAR0QsTme21ieXYTNxCmdddfRtt_k6xNCTWjqQZ_dt 2inx8ZyjUSDub0F9tE

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When you look at the moves made since draft, have to up our overall offseason grade to B+. Can't give A with no attempt to address QB long term, which is again inexcusable, but when you look at Reyes, Patterson, McCain, Leno, trying to bring in CFL guys, trying to dump Moses, etc., you have to up the grade a bit. Our FO is aggressively trying to improve via EVERY avenue available, even at positions where conventional wisdoms says stand pat. Dumping Moses is emphatically the smart long term decision. I'm not one of the Homers who thinks we are a SB contender, but we are a much improved team, give FO credit.

Players added:
DRAFT
LB - Davis
OT - Cosmi
CB - Juste
WR - Brown
TE - Bates
S - Forrest
LS - Cheeseman
DE - King
DE - Toney
WR - Milne
10 guys, though we did mortgage future

UDFA
RB - Patterson
TE - Reyes (put him as UDFA as this seems most logical designation)
2 guys, 2 free late round picks essentially

FA
QB - Fitzaverage
CB - Jackson
WR - Samuel
LT - Leno
CB - Roberts
RB - Miller
WR - Humphries
OLB - Norris
OT - Sharpe
C - Larsen
CB - Johnson
ILB - Mayo
WR - Carter
TE - Yelder
S - Stephens
S/CB McCain
16 FAs. That is a lot, but only two, Jackson Samuel, longer than 1 year. In English, the backend of roster still remains extremely unsettled. No way we ever consistently get comp picks signing 12+ FAs per year. You'll know our roster is closer to complete when this trend of gaggles of FAs on 1-year deals ends. All these guys won't make roster, but say 10 do. That is 22 new players if every rookie makes team (which improbable). Even 20 players is over 33% turnover. That is aggressive improvement.

ADDITION BY SUBTRACTION
CB - Darby
LB - Pierre Louis
DE - Kerrigan
TE - Sprinkle
CB - Moreau
OLB - Anderson
WR - Foster
Every one of these moves was emphatically right choice, from replacing declining Kerrigan with young promising picks, to not paying Darby, to letting positionless Anderson go, etc.
Hopefully add one more to list:
RT - Moses

He hasn’t missed a start in 6 years, and the money is not an issue. It is a strange situation. And honestly who gives a shit about a pff grade. The guy is our starting right tackle and better than anyone else on our team to currently to man that position. This is not progress, it is a problem. A weird, unexpected problem.

I don't really care about the PFF grade, someone else brought up his 2020 grade, so I thought I'd share the whole picture.

This is not the end of the world. Obviously they believe they can get as good or better play with someone else on the roster, and if they can also get something for him - so be it.

I don't really care about the PFF grade, someone else brought up his 2020 grade, so I thought I'd share the whole picture.

This is not the end of the world. Obviously they believe they can get as good or better play with someone else on the roster, and if they can also get something for him - so be it.

Even if they get nothing, and just cut him, they have essentially gotten Allen long term instead of letting him walk.

Even if they get nothing, and just cut him, they have essentially gotten Allen long term instead of letting him walk.

You make an excellent point. We fans tend to lose sight of the Big Picture. I do, anyway.

I'd strongly disagree about him being just a guy. He's a top 20 interior lineman according to PFF (18th overall). Payne was 38th last year. Settle was 43rd and Ioannidis 54th.

Some tough decisions coming up. I would like to keep Matty I. as interior pass rush. Making any o line account for Young and Sweat on the sides and Matty in the middle would be an effort in futility.

Ioannidis was injured last season.

Yeah he didn't have enough snaps to qualify but I put him on there anyway for reference. Neither did Settle.