Bucs Postgame

Sorry pal, you're just wrong on that one. You're confusing an illegal touching of the ball and recovering the ball.

I'm not. Touching the ball, whether caught or just touched does not make it dead. It's dead when the play is over and the ref blows up. If he carries the ball over the line before the ref blows, it's still live. That's why they ruled a touchback. That's why kicking teams try to bat the ball back into play before they make contact with the end zone; it's still live until it's blown dead. If it was dead at the point of touching, all they would have to do was make contact and not care where it ends up.

I'm not. Touching the ball, whether caught or just touched does not make it dead. It's dead when the play is over and the ref blows up. If he carries the ball over the line before the ref blows, it's still live. That's why they ruled a touchback. That's why kicking teams try to bat the ball back into play before they make contact with the end zone; it's still live until it's blown dead. If it was dead at the point of touching, all they would have to do was make contact and not care where it ends up.Again, you're confusing touching and recovering the ball. Touching doesn't make it a dead ball. Recovering it does. Please read my previous posts with attention, the rules and experts analysis say it better than me.

A player of the kicking team recovering (NOT TOUCHING, RECOVERING) the ball renders it dead, play is over. The crossing the goal line rule is for either touching the ball or simultaneously recovering and crossing the line.

Definitely right again. It somehow did not touch any of the Bucs players. Just our luck. Lol. So many little things that could have swung this game. The big one is that squib kick. That was just absolutely nonsense. Turning point imo. We had momentum for a brief moment until our coaching staff out thought themselves. A little bit of a bad habit if you ask me.

Yes, but I'd be curious if the ST coach asked Ron, or Ron asked him. Ultimately it sits with RR to make those decisions but if both of them thought it was a great idea that worries me a little. Personally I don't want an ST coach that's gungho about making plays like that. I want a guy to exercise caution and a HC that is the one to take (and accept) the risks.

I'm not. Touching the ball, whether caught or just touched does not make it dead. It's dead when the play is over and the ref blows up. If he carries the ball over the line before the ref blows, it's still live. That's why they ruled a touchback. That's why kicking teams try to bat the ball back into play before they make contact with the end zone; it's still live until it's blown dead. If it was dead at the point of touching, all they would have to do was make contact and not care where it ends up.

Here we go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agkHw7phYII

Here we go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agkHw7phYIIYeah, exactly my point. This one is a bang bang play. I get the feeling you're not reading my posts.

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Yeah, exactly my point. This one is a bang bang play. I get the feeling you're not reading my posts.

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It's not bang bang. In that case Freeney caught it at the 4 (in the air) landed at the 3 then took 3 steps and stepped on the line. Had it been dead where he touched it/established the catch, the official would have blown up and given possession at the 4. His movement/momentum carried him into the endzone, just like Apke on Saturday. The play is not dead until the official whistles that the ball has been downed (ball or knee etc. touches the ground in possession) or the player in possession has stopped moving and given himself up.

Fun game to watch. I really enjoyed my Saturday night. Just wish the front 4 could have gotten to Brady a bit more and did better with run D.

Run game needs to be corrected. Gibson 14 carries 31 yards was a horrible showing. Im not sure what the solution is. Perhaps an upgrade at LT and LG but that doesnt account for the no gain runs up the middle or the right where we have Sherff-Moses. Id be curious to see Moses run grade. Doesnt seem to dominate/set the edge.

run D - gave up 142 yards on 29 carries.

Defense gave up 507 total yards. Our D disappointed on the big stage. They wanted it, they get paid the big bucks ... and gave up 507 yards and kept allowing 4-7 yard runs on them.

Chase Young should have feasted on their LT Smith .. whom their fans dont think highly of. On pas plays many times he was left 1 on 1 without help and Chase didnt impact the play. im sure Chase will replay the game many times in his head this offseason and use it as motivation.

Chase got shut out by a Donovan Smith.

I don't think Gibson was ever close to being back to 100% after the toe injury. I think we can still add to the RB group in the draft.

It's not bang bang. In that case Freeney caught it at the 4 (in the air) landed at the 3 then took 3 steps and stepped on the line. Had it been dead where he touched it/established the catch, the official would have blown up and given possession at the 4. His movement/momentum carried him into the endzone, just like Apke on Saturday. The play is not dead until the official whistles that the ball has been downed (ball or knee etc. touches the ground in possession) or the player in possession has stopped moving and given himself up.

One last time, because it was only funny the first five.

From the NFL rule book. (https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2020-nfl-rulebook/)

"If the kickers catch or recover a kick beyond the line that has not been touched beyond the line by the receiving team, the ball is dead, and it is first-and-10 for the receivers at the spot of catch or recovery"

This is very basic. Player of the kicking team recovers the ball, ball is dead, play is over.

Now, because of the NFL rule tweak to allow a player to batt the ball back across the goal line and down it without it being a touchback (which isn't possible with NCAA/IFAF rules), they had to specify which one is and isn't a touchback in this situation, hence the rule you're referring to:

"If a player of the kicking team illegally catches or recovers a scrimmage kick, other than a field-goal attempt from beyond the 20-yard line, and touches the goal line with any part of his body while in possession of the ball, the ball is dead, and the result of the play is a touchback".

But please note that they precise "the ball is dead", which highlights they're referring to bang bang situations, otherwise the ball is already dead when it's caught.

This is why IMO this rule is not well written... and this is why it got refs confused on Sunday. Not only according to me, whose legitimacy isn't sufficient, but to ESPN writer (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30656411/questionable-nfl-playoff-officiating-decisions-happened-which-were-right):

"The ball should have been marked where Apke first gained possession, and not a touchback. By rule, a kick that goes past the line of scrimmage is dead as soon as a member of the kicking team downs it. The ball can't be advanced. There are many judgment calls over the course of a game that can be debated. This one was a matter of rule application. Washington should have been able to pin the Buccaneers deeper than it did."

And also according to NBC's rules analyst during the game (https://twitter.com/RobinBarde/status/1348660158071713792), listen to what he said "it's common sense that tells you it shouldn't have been applied on this play [...] I think the play was over and had nothing to do with why the rule is there".

Nah I watched it 20 times and I really don't think it did.

They showed the close up replay at the angle to see it from ONE TIME. Coming right out of the commercial break. The ball hit the bag on his back/butt. For sure. I'm pretty sure that Dungy even started to comment on it, but Tirico cut him off to bring in the rules expert to talk about it being a touchback. They focused on the touchback vs. no touchback ruling, rather than the more important issue that the ball hit the Buc. I can't find the full replay anywhere, do you have it?