Coronavirus (political)

so, I have stayed away from all this because I know the general tone in the thread. I will put this here, and if anyone wants to have a decent discussion I am all for it. The point stated up front is while the NY/NJ/Mass/Connecticut numbers are horrendous, the US as a whole did far better in mitigating the Coronavirus outbreak than European countries.

Northern European Countries with Deaths per million > 278 (US Average)
Country, Deaths per Million, Tests per Million
Belgium,784,"60,157"
Andorra,660,"48,543"
Spain,593,"64,977"
Italy,529,"50,294"
UK,513,"39,542"
France,433,"21,218"
Sweden,366,"17,588"
Netherlands,332,"17,358"
Ireland,314,"52,484"
Isle of Man,282,"49,035"

I will note Germany's exceptionally low number of 97 deaths per million, and credit German's strict "ordnung" or ocd to government laws as a part of their success.

Compare those major countries that are way over our average to our states
New York,1456,"73,018"
New Jersey,1167,"59,053"
Connecticut,956,"47,852"
Massachusetts,841,"66,859"
District Of Columbia,543,"51,755"
Louisiana,536,"57,041"
Michigan,490,"41,205"
Rhode Island,471,"106,243"
Pennsylvania,352,"26,881"
Illinois,330,"45,924"
Maryland,329,"32,242"
Delaware,298,"41,966"

Those 12 are mostly in the New York Corridor of the Pandemic, the outliers are Michigan, Illinois and Louisana. Coincidentally (or not) of those 12 states, 9 were definite losses for Trump before all this started.
If you took out NY,NJ,Connecticut and Massachusetts out of the total US count, I would imagine the 278 number would drop to close to 200, but I didn't do the math so not sure.

The other 38 states plus territories are well below the European countries

Indiana,260,"26,328"
Colorado,211,"21,937"
Mississippi,175,"38,011"
Georgia,152,"33,075"
Ohio,139,"22,625"
Washington,133,"37,887"
Minnesota,130,"26,705"
New Mexico,126,"63,550"
New Hampshire,126,"39,277"
Virginia,118,"24,700"
Nevada,114,"31,152"
Iowa,111,"31,771"
Alabama,100,"31,887"
Missouri,98,"25,588"
Arizona,93,"27,890"
Florida,92,"30,407"
Vermont,87,"37,188"
California,83,"31,465"
Wisconsin,78,"26,143"
South Carolina,75,"24,822"
Kentucky,75,"29,027"
Oklahoma,73,"31,204"
Kansas,67,"21,142"
North Carolina,65,"23,736"
Nebraska,64,"34,971"
North Dakota,56,"72,463"
Maine,52,"24,576"
South Dakota,50,"32,282"
Texas,47,"23,909"
Tennessee,44,"47,631"
Idaho,41,"20,521"
West Virginia,37,"42,123"
Arkansas,32,"28,227"
Oregon,32,"22,371"
Utah,25,"53,261"
Montana,15,"25,155"
Wyoming,14,"28,326"
Alaska,14,"47,367"
Hawaii,12,"29,514"

How much of this is due to the policy of states and the federal governments? I think a lot of it has to do with circumstances of the environment. Europe has over twice the population in roughly the same square area (3.7 million square miles for US vs 3.9 for Europe). When you look at some of the states that have similar population densities to some of the European countries we have higher deaths per million people. There is also the geography making Europe more susceptible. I do think European countries should have been more proactive and recognized their susceptibility sooner. Trump was smart to close the border earlier. I think a more comprehensive federal response instead of a state by state response would have been better but what do I know I am just a socialist.

On a side my wife is a counselor in a local school district. She had a student counselor getting his Master's at Johns Hopkins this year. He is from China and got back to the US from China winter break just before the Trump limited travel. Since he has been back his advising professor at JHU died and now that he has completed his Master's program he is stuck here but his student visa is expiring. Feel bad for him.

No big surprise here

Nearly Half Of The Twitter Accounts Discussing ‘Reopening America’ May Be Bots (https://www.cs.cmu.edu/news/nearly-half-twitter-accounts-discussing-‘reopening-america’-may-be-bots)

No big surprise here

Nearly Half Of The Twitter Accounts Discussing ‘Reopening America’ May Be Bots (https://www.cs.cmu.edu/news/nearly-half-twitter-accounts-discussing-‘reopening-america’-may-be-bots)

People are so split on the issue, even without the bots.

A lot of my Democrat friends want a long term shutdown, until a vaccine is developed. They don't seem to know, or care, about the economic consequences, and in fact over the past couple of days i have even been accused of not being a "real" democrat because i have been vocal about the lockdowns doing more harm than good.

One of my best friends told me that straight up the only way to get Joe Biden elected would be if we could destroy the country and the economy. So i was accused that by supporting a desire to reopen America, i was supporting Trump.

Maybe this is the small minority of Democrats, but i'm not sure. Theres an awful lot of people right now hoping America stays shut down for good.

I received my covid stimulus money. Dont think it was the right amount but close enough.

People are so split on the issue, even without the bots.

A lot of my Democrat friends want a long term shutdown, until a vaccine is developed. They don't seem to know, or care, about the economic consequences, and in fact over the past couple of days i have even been accused of not being a "real" democrat because i have been vocal about the lockdowns doing more harm than good.

One of my best friends told me that straight up the only way to get Joe Biden elected would be if we could destroy the country and the economy. So i was accused that by supporting a desire to reopen America, i was supporting Trump.

Maybe this is the small minority of Democrats, but i'm not sure. Theres an awful lot of people right now hoping America stays shut down for good.

I honestly don't think the divide is that great. Polls show that most people are concerned about states re-opening too quickly. Out in public most people are wearing masks and observing social distancing just fine.

What you're talking about with destroying the economy to get Trump out or keeping the country shut down for good are discussions not even worth having IMO because they just lack common sense and rationality. People with those views are on the fringe.

I honestly don't think the divide is that great. Polls show that most people are concerned about states re-opening too quickly. Out in public most people are wearing masks and observing social distancing just fine.

What you're talking about with destroying the economy to get Trump out or keeping the country shut down for good are discussions not even worth having IMO because they just lack common sense and rationality. People with those views are on the fringe.

I think Trump has been out for a long time, but I do see a big divide in policy between the typical Republicans and Democrats of re-opening the country for business. The businesses in my area run the gamut on their compliance of mandates from the governor. The mom & pop market close to me has deli workers without any protective equipment and no one at the check out counter with it on either. Nothing but a couple 6 foot marks on the floor by the checkout line. Seems like the small business aren't complying much, with the larger ones at high levels of compliance. It doesn't seem like there is any enforcement around here.

People are so split on the issue, even without the bots.

A lot of my Democrat friends want a long term shutdown, until a vaccine is developed. They don't seem to know, or care, about the economic consequences, and in fact over the past couple of days i have even been accused of not being a "real" democrat because i have been vocal about the lockdowns doing more harm than good.

One of my best friends told me that straight up the only way to get Joe Biden elected would be if we could destroy the country and the economy. So i was accused that by supporting a desire to reopen America, i was supporting Trump.

Maybe this is the small minority of Democrats, but i'm not sure. Theres an awful lot of people right now hoping America stays shut down for good.

Not being argumentative here but I know no one like that . I'm the sole republican in my household and none of the kids their spouse's or friends feel that way nor do any Democratic friends I have.They know their money and savings are all tied up in the economy a great economy is good for all ,it was great under Obama when he brought it back after 08 and while I despise trump and thankfully many republicans are jumping ship on him it's not about him, the economy will come back,the market was due a correction anyway.

Not being argumentative here but I know no one like that . I'm the sole republican in my household and none of the kids their spouse's or friends feel that way nor do any Democratic friends I have.They know their money and savings are all tied up in the economy a great economy is good for all ,it was great under Obama when he brought it back after 08 and while I despise trump and thankfully many republicans are jumping ship on him it's not about him, the economy will come back,the market was due a correction anyway.

It is going to take a long,long time. The change in people's future spending habits is going to put a lot of businesses out of business. We already have had a lot of restaurants permanently close, many of those that survived so far aren't doing well. I went in a Subway and got a sandwich yesterday, even though the parking lot was jam packed with people who were probably grocery shopping I was the only one in the Subway and the whole time I exited and ate the sandwich in my vehicle no one else went in.

The local McDonald's which is a stone's throw from I-95 is usually jam packed on Friday-Saturday-Sunday, no matter what time of day. When I drove past there at 3pm today on the way to the bank there were two cars in the drive thru line.

I suppose I have to take the good with the bad as it seems on average the Corona-virus adds 5-10 unpaid hours to my business week. Most of that is using Fedex because the post office is no longer reliable. Also customer service from vendors has gotten real bad with most of them. On the good side I do not have to wait in long lines for takeout food. Unfortunately that is not sustainable, as no one in line for food equals out of business soon.

It is going to take a long,long time. The change in people's future spending habits is going to put a lot of businesses out of business. We already have had a lot of restaurants permanently close, many of those that survived so far aren't doing well. I went in a Subway and got a sandwich yesterday, even though the parking lot was jam packed with people who were probably grocery shopping I was the only one in the Subway and the whole time I exited and ate the sandwich in my vehicle no one else went in.

The local McDonald's which is a stone's throw from I-95 is usually jam packed on Friday-Saturday-Sunday, no matter what time of day. When I drove past there at 3pm today on the way to the bank there were two cars in the drive thru line.

I suppose I have to take the good with the bad as it seems on average the Corona-virus adds 5-10 unpaid hours to my business week. Most of that is using Fedex because the post office is no longer reliable. Also customer service from vendors has gotten real bad with most of them. On the good side I do not have to wait in long lines for takeout food. Unfortunately that is not sustainable, as no one in line for food equals out of business soon.


I would think that probably 60 - 75% of "Mom and Pop's" / small businesses are out of business permanently by the time this "ends". What will be left is large big box stores for shopping, corporate owned restaurants, think large chains

But it is also important to remember that many things that are now gone for good were already on their way to going out well before the pandemic. Think places like sears, AMC theaters, etc.... It's easy for a business to blame the virus now for going OB when even before the lockdowns, they may have survived two or three more months tops....

People are so split on the issue, even without the bots.

A lot of my Democrat friends want a long term shutdown, until a vaccine is developed. They don't seem to know, or care, about the economic consequences, and in fact over the past couple of days i have even been accused of not being a "real" democrat because i have been vocal about the lockdowns doing more harm than good.

One of my best friends told me that straight up the only way to get Joe Biden elected would be if we could destroy the country and the economy. So i was accused that by supporting a desire to reopen America, i was supporting Trump.

Maybe this is the small minority of Democrats, but i'm not sure. Theres an awful lot of people right now hoping America stays shut down for good.

Yes, like me. Death to America. Communism rules. Suck it Reagan.