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Warthog 01-02-2020, 01:04 PM Shanny asked for that too even pen to paper didn't quite work out that way.
Yeah, but he had Bruce Allen built into the management structure to do Dan Snyder’s bidding. Allen has enormous power over personnel choices and other matters. There is no such person in place now , and Rivera has the right to decline any person who Snyder might try to bring in under the old pattern. I am cautiously optimistic that Snyder and his meddling and micromanagement is over.
The next GM and VP will be NFL-savvy and of a far better quality than Cerrato/Allen. They also will only be chosen if they can work closely with Rivera and his crew.
Finally, I’m not suggesting that Snyder is closed out of all football issues. He’ll be informed by Rivera. But his current, secret advisor group has far more football knowledge than before and are NOT part of the organization, which means that they’re not giving advise in order to maintain their position in the franchise or to improve it (like with Bruce Allen).
A good example of the “before” and “after” Snyder is the case of OC, O’Connell. In prior years, Snyder would have just placed O’Connell as Rivera’s OC. Now, Rivera made the decision. I’m sure Snyder gave Rivera his thoughts on O’Connell, but in the end it was Rivera’s decision. New environment and hopefully a new way of doing business. Because this new way is the only way to successfully rebuild this team and franchise.
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mooby 01-02-2020, 01:33 PM He said that but he also said he wanted some guarantees that the FO guys would be on the same page as he did, that nobody would interfere with his football decisions and that he wants control on this year's draft. That's obviously way more control than what Jay had.
Source? I've heard he wants a partnership with the GM and would like to have the ability to take any disagreements to the owner to settle, but I've heard nothing about him wanting full control on the draft.
JoeRedskin 01-02-2020, 01:43 PM In terms of the power dynamic at Redskins HQ, Snyder + FO Bootlicker is a bad combo no matter what the original agreement with the HC is. Cerrato/Allen both had Snyder's ear and, regardless of their title or express authority, they were apparently able to exert influence into key franchise decisions during stressful situations that, ultimately, undercut the HC's authority.
The exception this dynamic was Gibbs & Cerrato but Dan worshipped Gibbs; I am betting Cerrato did everything in his power to ingratiate himself to JG while he was here. When Gibbs unexpectedly quit, Cerrato stepped right back up and we ended up with <sigh> Zorn (stayin' medium!) who was 0 threat to Cerrato's influence.
I am with CRedskins on this. RR's being the first hire and a commitment from DS that the front office's head will be someone compatible with RR bodes well, IMHO.
If the new GM/[Title of Choice for FO head] is Kyle Smith, great. I think he is a solid choice and doesn't APPEAR to be a BA crony - at least I have seen nothing to suggest that. If RR and he are not on the same page, then out he goes. If they are, sweet! While housecleaning is necessary, if quality people can be retained who are on board and compatible with RR's "tough-nosed" professionalism, that is a good thing to me.
Giving RR say in who runs the FO is a solid move. RR has said "I don't want to run the organization or be in charge of player acquisition" (or words to that effect). Rather, he just wants "to pick the 46 that are going to play", to be consulted by those in charge of player acquisition about team needs, etc. and to have access to ownership if a dispute between him and the FO arises about the teams direction.
So, it seems to me that RR is looking to step into a situation where he and the FO are on the same page. I suggest it is RR's expectation that his relationship with the FO chief will work something like this -
--
FO Chief: Okay coach, what are we looking for?
RR: Well, we could use a MLB who is good at [X] and a TE who can really [Y]
FOC: Okay, we'll work on that. [TIME PASSES ...]
FOC: Okay, we got a couple of guys lined up who we think fit your needs.
RR: Great. Get them on the roster and we work'em out.
IF DISPUTES ARISE:
RR: Hey, those guys didn't really work out and we need to move on from them.
FOC: Not gonna do that. ... and BTW, we signed X and DS expects him to be our new starting RB.
RR: We need to have a sit down with DS and figure out this sh**, b/c this is not how 'teamwork' works.
FOC: No need, DS is already in the loop and on board.
RR: Yes. Need. DS is not in the loop until he has heard my piece. If he is on board after that, then so be it. Next time though, if you try an end-around, one of us is out the door and I will tell DS exactly that.
--
Again, I don't think RR really wants to run things. I do think RR really wants to have things run professionally and that, if thinks they are not, he will let DS know that.
Number44 01-02-2020, 01:43 PM Yeah, but he had Bruce Allen built into the management structure to do Dan Snyder’s bidding. Allen has enormous power over personnel choices and other matters. There is no such person in place now , and Rivera has the right to decline any person who Snyder might try to bring in under the old pattern. I am cautiously optimistic that Snyder and his meddling and micromanagement is over.
The next GM and VP will be NFL-savvy and of a far better quality than Cerrato/Allen. They also will only be chosen if they can work closely with Rivera and his crew.
Finally, I’m not suggesting that Snyder is closed out of all football issues. He’ll be informed by Rivera. But his current, secret advisor group has far more football knowledge than before and are NOT part of the organization, which means that they’re not giving advise in order to maintain their position in the franchise or to improve it (like with Bruce Allen).
A good example of the “before” and “after” Snyder is the case of OC, O’Connell. In prior years, Snyder would have just placed O’Connell as Rivera’s OC. Now, Rivera made the decision. I’m sure Snyder gave Rivera his thoughts on O’Connell, but in the end it was Rivera’s decision. New environment and hopefully a new way of doing business. Because this new way is the only way to successfully rebuild this team and franchise.
What decision? I haven't seen where a decision's been made on OC. Have I missed something?
AnonEmouse 01-02-2020, 01:51 PM Re Snyder's approach, something tells me this brain trust he reportedly used told him he needed to step away from football ops and let the football guys do their stuff. It may not be a case of RR wanting/having more control as much as DS agreeing that he'd look after the business side and leave the GM & HC to manage the football ops.
It is a little curious not having a new GM in place before the HC, but I suspect that DS was advised to keep Smith in place and if they judge that he continues to draft right (and maybe more so, to RR's needs) then they are inclined to promote Smith to GM and thus have the de facto GM already in place; just official post draft. As long as DS isn't telling anyone who to draft, I'd be good with this.
Warthog 01-02-2020, 01:52 PM The articles I’ve read say that Rivera will have control of the 2020 draft / FA, after which time they will hire a GM & a VP. Perhaps that means the GM or VP may come from the current Redskins executives that are left (such a Kyle Smith) or from the outside. I believe part of the reason Rivera wants control of the draft is to make sure Snyder doesn’t rebut in any promises he made to Rivera about too much involvement in personnel decisions.
I also saw articles /quotes that say he doesn’t want long-term personnel control. After this draft he’ll work with the new GM, who he will approve.
The 2020 draft is critical for Rivera because these players will be on his team the longest for his 5-year contract. Also, the #2 draft pick is a big decision - Chase or trading for draft picks.
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Warthog 01-02-2020, 01:55 PM What decision? I haven't seen where a decision's been made on OC. Have I missed something?
Yesterday. O’Connell was interviewed yesterday by Rivera and is staying in his job as are four other coaches. The rest are gone (Callahan & Manusky and the others)
Out with the old, in with the new!
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BaltimoreSkins 01-02-2020, 02:00 PM In terms of the power dynamic at Redskins HQ, Snyder + FO Bootlicker is a bad combo no matter what the original agreement with the HC is. Cerrato/Allen both had Snyder's ear and, regardless of their title or express authority, they were apparently able to exert influence into key franchise decisions during stressful situations that, ultimately, undercut the HC's authority.
The exception this dynamic was Gibbs & Cerrato but Dan worshipped Gibbs; I am betting Cerrato did everything in his power to ingratiate himself to JG while he was here. When Gibbs unexpectedly quit, Cerrato stepped right back up and we ended up with <sigh> Zorn (stayin' medium!) who was 0 threat to Cerrato's influence.
I am with CRedskins on this. RR's being the first hire and a commitment from DS that the front office's head will be someone compatible with RR bodes well, IMHO.
If the new GM/[Title of Choice for FO head] is Kyle Smith, great. I think he is a solid choice and doesn't APPEAR to be a BA crony - at least I have seen nothing to suggest that. If RR and he are not on the same page, then out he goes. If they are, sweet! While housecleaning is necessary, if quality people can be retained who are on board and compatible with RR's "tough-nosed" professionalism, that is a good thing to me.
Giving RR say in who runs the FO is a solid move. RR has said "I don't want to run the organization or be in charge of player acquisition" (or words to that effect). Rather, he just wants "to pick the 46 that are going to play", to be consulted by those in charge of player acquisition about team needs, etc. and to have access to ownership if a dispute between him and the FO arises about the teams direction.
So, it seems to me that RR is looking to step into a situation where he and the FO are on the same page. I suggest it is RR's expectation that his relationship with the FO chief will work something like this -
--
FO Chief: Okay coach, what are we looking for?
RR: Well, we could use a MLB who is good at [X] and a TE who can really [Y]
FOC: Okay, we'll work on that. [TIME PASSES ...]
FOC: Okay, we got a couple of guys lined up who we think fit your needs.
RR: Great. Get them on the roster and we work'em out.
IF DISPUTES ARISE:
RR: Hey, those guys didn't really work out and we need to move on from them.
FOC: Not gonna do that. ... and BTW, we signed X and DS expects him to be our new starting RB.
RR: We need to have a sit down with DS and figure out this sh**, b/c this is not how 'teamwork' works.
FOC: No need, DS is already in the loop and on board.
RR: Yes. Need. DS is not in the loop until he has heard my piece. If he is on board after that, then so be it. Next time though, if you try an end-around, one of us is out the door and I will tell DS exactly that.
--
Again, I don't think RR really wants to run things. I do think RR really wants to have things run professionally and that, if thinks they are not, he will let DS know that.
Only commenting on Vinny here. He has a radio show in Baltimore and some of this is he said/ he said from the show and some just inferring but I get the impression Vinny was a yes man through and through and not interested in exuding any authority.
Warthog 01-02-2020, 02:10 PM Only commenting on Vinny here. He has a radio show in Baltimore and some of this is he said/ he said from the show and some just inferring but I get the impression Vinny was a yes man through and through and not interested in exuding any authority.
Both Vinny and Bruce Allen were the same: lackey, azz kissing executives with vast power in the franchise and little football knowledge or ability. Their job was to provide cover for Dan Snyder decisions and be the fan/media punching bag when those decisions were wrong - as they often were.
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JoeRedskin 01-02-2020, 02:38 PM Both Vinny and Bruce Allen were the same: lackey, azz kissing executives with vast power in the franchise and little football knowledge or ability. Their job was to provide cover for Dan Snyder decisions and be the fan/media punching bag when those decisions were wrong - as they often were.
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We need a facebook "Like" button, b/c I would have smashed on it this.
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