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mooby 12-04-2019, 01:20 PM Tell that to Joe Montana and Steve Young who were developed by Bill Walsh and are both in the Hall of Fame.
I'm really more worried about finding a coach that can win a title by working in cohesion with the front office to build a team worthy.
The good coaches in this league adapt to the players they have, they get rid of players playing for selfish reasons (i.e. money or fame) and they bring in guys devoted to team goals. Teams that win titles do so when players start putting team success ahead of personal success.
The right coach will be able to bring in the right staff that will develop Haskins en route to developing an entire team that can compete for a title.
skinsfan69 12-04-2019, 01:25 PM The HC 's job is to run the team, set the culture of the team, lead the team, make sure he has good assistants, not develop the QB. Having a bad staff can break the HC.
There are plenty of examples of great QB's being on teams w/ defensive coaches. I want the best guy for the job, regardless of what side of the ball he works on.
Haskins can still develop with a defensive coach.
skinsfan69 12-04-2019, 01:27 PM Tell that to Joe Montana and Steve Young who were developed by Bill Walsh and are both in the Hall of Fame.
I think Steve Young would tell you that a huge part of his success was because of Mike Holmgren. Young did not become a full time starter until after Walsh had left.
skinsfaninok 12-04-2019, 01:47 PM There has to be a very low chance BA comes back right?? I mean Dan has to see this issue
There has to be a very low chance BA comes back right?? I mean Dan has to see this issue
One would hope right? But what if we squeak out say two more wins and finish 5-11. God forbid if one of the teams we beat are the Packers. I'm sure Bruce's excuses would consist of the following:
1. Jay was the head coach and didn't want to start Haskins and was 0-5 before being fired. Basically blaming 5 losses on a coach that they fired.
2. We had an interim head coach with a rookie QB that went 5-6, just under .500.
3. The best LT in football held out, OL cohesion, etc.
4. [insert other excuses here]
With the news a while back regarding Bezo potentially helping Dan get a new stadium, one would hope that is true and that he doesn't need Bruce around to get that done any longer.
Either way, until Dan gets out of the way himself, is it really going to matter who he replaces Bruce with? And I'm not saying not to fire him, he should have already been fired a while ago.
Defensewins 12-04-2019, 03:38 PM Regarding offense or defensive coach...defense vs. offense, is doesn't matter, football is football. You have to be good at both to be a good head coach.
Leadership, teaching, mentoring player evaluation and organizational skills are just as important.
I think it was Jimmy Johnson or Tony Kornheiser or Micheal Wilbon that said yesterday the that the state of coaching in the NFL is the worst we have seen is 50 years. I agree. There are more really bad teams right now that I have ever seen in my life time. More badly coached teams and players that are uber talented that do not have fundamentals.
The NFL has so many bad teams that we still have a mathematical chance to win the NFC LEast. There are only a few really good teams. It fucking sucks.
Chico23231 12-04-2019, 04:13 PM Regarding offense or defensive coach...defense vs. offense, is doesn't matter, football is football. You have to be good at both to be a good head coach.
Leadership, teaching, mentoring player evaluation and organizational skills are just as important.
I think it was Jimmy Johnson or Tony Kornheiser or Micheal Wilbon that said yesterday the that the state of coaching in the NFL is the worst we have seen is 50 years. I agree. There are more really bad teams right now that I have ever seen in my life time. More badly coached teams and players that are uber talented that do not have fundamentals.
The NFL has so many bad teams that we still have a mathematical chance to win the NFC LEast. There are only a few really good teams. It fucking sucks.
Also HC are given 2-3 years max if not performing. Also, Coordinators less time. You keep switching schemes on both sides, it hurts the quality of ball.
BigHairedAristocrat 12-04-2019, 04:29 PM The HC 's job is to run the team, set the culture of the team, lead the team, make sure he has good assistants, not develop the QB. Having a bad staff can break the HC.
There are plenty of examples of great QB's being on teams w/ defensive coaches. I want the best guy for the job, regardless of what side of the ball he works on.
Haskins can still develop with a defensive coach.
Thought it was important to highlight these two points.
Contrary to the current opinion in our front office, our culture is not "damn good" - its been the complete opposite. The Prince of Darkness has ruined the culture of this team. Jay was a little too easy-going. Whoever we bring in needs to really change that culture and create a professional environment here - from the front office down to the locker room.
To the other point, hiring great assistants really is key. Now, Gruden had some great offensive assistants here - the fact that 2 of them are successful head coaches now is a testament to that. But he could never bring in a good DC. And aside from Tomsula, I don't think any of our other defensive coaches would be ranked in the top half of the league. Gruden had a chance to get Wade Phillips and turned it down. He stubbornly stuck with Manusky last offseason... why? In both instances, there were rumblings that Jay was insecure and afraid to bring in someone who could be viewed as a potential replacement for him should he be fired. His insecurity lead to him NOT making the best hire. The new head coach cannot be that kind of guy. He's got to be someone who not only has the desire, but also the ability, to convince the best assistant coaches available to come here.
Given our reputation in the league, finding the head coach who can do both things is going to be very, very difficult. I sincerely hope Snyder has already started the process of searching for a new GM and/or head coach. I say both because, while traditionally, you'd hire a GM and let him pick the coach, sometimes, if the coach is elite enough, you can do the reverse - you hire the coach and let him select the GM. I don't think there are any coaching candidates out there that have that cache, but its always possible someone unexpected could become available.
There were rumors last offseason that part of the reason Jay
BigHairedAristocrat 12-04-2019, 04:53 PM Also HC are given 2-3 years max if not performing. Also, Coordinators less time. You keep switching schemes on both sides, it hurts the quality of ball.
If we were to somehow land a proven elite coach, I'd be all for signing him to a longer than normal contact, for just that reason. Perhaps nothing as crazy as the 10 year deal Gruden got, but more than the usual 4 years than is usually given to the lower-tier guys.
If we can get the right coach and GM, i'd love to do what SF did when they gave Shanahan and Lynch 6 year contracts right off the bat. Giving them that commitment right off the bat so they both know they have some time and aren't under the pressure to sacrifice the long-term to win now.
SolidSnake84 12-04-2019, 07:25 PM Thought it was important to highlight these two points.
Contrary to the current opinion in our front office, our culture is not "damn good" - its been the complete opposite. The Prince of Darkness has ruined the culture of this team. Jay was a little too easy-going. Whoever we bring in needs to really change that culture and create a professional environment here - from the front office down to the locker room.
To the other point, hiring great assistants really is key. Now, Gruden had some great offensive assistants here - the fact that 2 of them are successful head coaches now is a testament to that. But he could never bring in a good DC. And aside from Tomsula, I don't think any of our other defensive coaches would be ranked in the top half of the league. Gruden had a chance to get Wade Phillips and turned it down. He stubbornly stuck with Manusky last offseason... why? In both instances, there were rumblings that Jay was insecure and afraid to bring in someone who could be viewed as a potential replacement for him should he be fired. His insecurity lead to him NOT making the best hire. The new head coach cannot be that kind of guy. He's got to be someone who not only has the desire, but also the ability, to convince the best assistant coaches available to come here.
Given our reputation in the league, finding the head coach who can do both things is going to be very, very difficult. I sincerely hope Snyder has already started the process of searching for a new GM and/or head coach. I say both because, while traditionally, you'd hire a GM and let him pick the coach, sometimes, if the coach is elite enough, you can do the reverse - you hire the coach and let him select the GM. I don't think there are any coaching candidates out there that have that cache, but its always possible someone unexpected could become available.
There were rumors last offseason that part of the reason Jay
Didn't it come out after Jay's firing that Jay wanted Manusky gone but he (Gruden) did not have the power to hire / fire staff?
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