Democratic Primary Push for White House

I dont think even the mighty USA can go an unilaterally enforce a no fly zone in a foreign country .. restricting that country from flying in their own air space. Russia already buzzes our guys when we are flying in international air space.

No way Russia and Syria would have abided by it, creates way to many instances where "something" could happen. A no fly zone sounded nice but I dont think it would be realistic.

Arming the kurds - I feel like we did but said we were only sending defensive material and not tanks etc but we hooked them up as much as we could. They had those shoulder launcher things to take down helicopters and tanks. Turkey and the Kurds is a delicate relationship and I think we did have to balance helping the Kurds fight ISIS while also limiting the disdain from Turkey.

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Middle east diplomacy? I dont think there are any "best case" scenarios re diplomacy. You could argue pros and cons for no fly zone or complete pull out or maintaining a monitor presence. All would be right but also wrong.

Damned if you, damned if you dont.

Ohhh you are assuming Russia would have come any way? Really? The Obama doctrine of strength wouldn’t have kept the Russians Out? Also Russia wasn’t what kept Syria from hanging on, it was Iran doing constant flying in arms and reinforcements....something the no fly zone would have kept out. Especially after Iraq refused to let them reinforce over their country.

But why are you choosing to speak about the Syrian situation now, say post 2016. Why don’t you address it from the beginning where the policy laid the foundation of failure?

Obama completely fucked up Syria situation.

And if you want to talk Russia, let’s talk about the Obama administration and their constant ass kicking Putin gave Obama. It’s like trump never gave Ukraine lethal arms support, killed Russian troops in Syria and imposed sanctions on Russia

Ohhh you are assuming Russia would have come always? Really? The Obama doctrine of strength wouldn’t have kept the
Out? Also Russia wasn’t what kept Syria from hanging on, it was Iran doing constant flying in arms and reinforcements....

But why are you choosing to speak about the Syrian situation now, say post 2016. Why don’t you address it from the beginning where the policy laid the foundation of failure?

Obama completely fucked up Syria situation.

My memory (without re-reading the hundreds of articles ive read over the past years) was that Al-Assad was very close to be thrown out until the last minute when Russia provided air cover and that drastically changed things.

im talking about Syria now ... because it is now. In 2016, I was talking about Syria .. in 2016. Not sure if i follow.

Obama and the US didnt want to get sucked into another objectiveless occupation like Iraq and Afgahnistan. I prefer that policy, so does your boy Trump.

if Obama went hard and bombed Syria and demanded no fly zones etc and something happened, people like you Chico would be screaming bloody murder. Obama went de-escalate and people like you are screaming.

Chico - im projecting here but I think you would attack any position Obama or any Dem took or takes. its okay though, there are many people on the left who have their "hate blinders" on as well and will scream at any little thing Trump or republicans do.

and now i find myself attacking another american for their political belief system and I feel like an asshole bc I try really hard not to judge others.

Ohhh you are assuming Russia would have come always? Really? The Obama doctrine of strength wouldn’t have kept the

Out? Also Russia wasn’t what kept Syria from hanging on, it was Iran doing constant flying in arms and reinforcements....something the no fly zone would have kept out. Especially after Iraq refused to let them reinforce over their country.



But why are you choosing to speak about the Syrian situation now, say post 2016. Why don’t you address it from the beginning where the policy laid the foundation of failure?



Obama completely fucked up Syria situation.



And if you want to talk Russia, let’s talk about the Obama administration and their constant ass kicking Putin gave Obama. It’s like trump never gave Ukraine lethal arms support, killed Russian troops in Syria and imposed sanctions on RussiaI think you are making assumptions about sunny. He wasn't slamming Trump (I don't think) or rushing to Obama's praise.

Moreso he was, again I think, pointing out how the media and politicians pick and choose their story of the day.

It is a truly sad thing to see these refugees and know that they are suffering partially because US policy in the mideast for so long has been a mess. Backing then not backing, encouraging popular uprisings then watching them get pounded back into submission. We as a nation can not be everywhere, and when our leaders think we can, bad things end up happening to the people on the ground.

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The middle east is and will always be a fucking disaster. There are no good options. No matter what choices are made, by either side, there will be criticisms of the action taken.

As there are no good options, I vote to stay the fuck out and keep moving towards energy independence by all means available.

No more nation building.

Ohhh you are assuming Russia would have come any way? Really? The Obama doctrine of strength wouldn’t have kept the Russians Out? Also Russia wasn’t what kept Syria from hanging on, it was Iran doing constant flying in arms and reinforcements....something the no fly zone would have kept out. Especially after Iraq refused to let them reinforce over their country.

But why are you choosing to speak about the Syrian situation now, say post 2016. Why don’t you address it from the beginning where the policy laid the foundation of failure?

Obama completely fucked up Syria situation.

And if you want to talk Russia, let’s talk about the Obama administration and their constant ass kicking Putin gave Obama. It’s like trump never gave Ukraine lethal arms support, killed Russian troops in Syria and imposed sanctions on Russia

I agree. Obama fucked up the Syria situation.

Now what?

How do you fix it? Do you even care about fixing it? If not, why are you here, except to point out who needs to be blamed for the entire thing.

As for Syria, there wasn't and isn't a win for the US there. Russia, regardless of who the US President is, would never allow it to become US friendly, and they simply don't care about how a regime treats its citizens. An expanded US presence simply would have brought increased Russian opposition. Korea in the 1950s is what I think would be the most likely comparison. And just as bloody.

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My memory (without re-reading the hundreds of articles ive read over the past years) was that Al-Assad was very close to be thrown out until the last minute when Russia provided air cover and that drastically changed things.

im talking about Syria now ... because it is now. In 2016, I was talking about Syria .. in 2016. Not sure if i follow.

Obama and the US didnt want to get sucked into another objectiveless occupation like Iraq and Afgahnistan. I prefer that policy, so does your boy Trump.

if Obama went hard and bombed Syria and demanded no fly zones etc and something happened, people like you Chico would be screaming bloody murder. Obama went de-escalate and people like you are screaming.

Chico - im projecting here but I think you would attack any position Obama or any Dem took or takes. its okay though, there are many people on the left who have their "hate blinders" on as well and will scream at any little thing Trump or republicans do.

and now i find myself attacking another american for their political belief system and I feel like an asshole bc I try really hard not to judge others.

When I hear the term ‘useful idiot’ and then think from a policy perspective in how two administrations have acted towards Syria and Russia...the narrative simply falls flat. Especially when I hear Obama tell Mitt Romney in the debates say the 1980s call and they want their foreign policy back...when Mitt correctly pointed out the Russian government was the biggest threat to the US.

The Russians were “mid-game” when it comes to the entire Syria civil war context. Go back and look at the timelines. No fly zone was on the table and have proven to be extremely effective strategy.

There is plenty of blame on all sides about the middle east as a whole. There are just no good options over there. I'm on the Rand Paul train regarding the middle east.

That money can be spent much better here. Or maybe actually put all that money towards our national debt. Hey politicians, it's ok to not spend every dollar you can get your mitts on.

I think you are making assumptions about sunny. He wasn't slamming Trump (I don't think) or rushing to Obama's praise.

Moreso he was, again I think, pointing out how the media and politicians pick and choose their story of the day.

It is a truly sad thing to see these refugees and know that they are suffering partially because US policy in the mideast for so long has been a mess. Backing then not backing, encouraging popular uprisings then watching them get pounded back into submission. We as a nation can not be everywhere, and when our leaders think we can, bad things end up happening to the people on the ground.

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Yes that was my original intent. the Dems and media portrayed the abrupt Trump pull out as some genocide and it was in the news 24/7 but now .. its crickets from the dems and media.

I do believe the Kurds were politically useful to the dems for a week, they feigned concern and outrage at trump .. but now where is that same concern for the refugees? It wasnt an instant massacre that the Dems predicted so it lost its political use?

I guess Im more annoyed at the media, I have to actually hunt for current syria articles vs before it was every where. Where are those embedded reporters? Wheres the horror of barrell bombs being dropped on civilian hospitals? its still happenening, its till sick but the US and media "have moved one" it seems. Convenient.

im ranting right now .. cathartic i suppose

The middle east is and will always be a fucking disaster. There are no good options. No matter what choices are made, by either side, there will be criticisms of the action taken.



As there are no good options, I vote to stay the fuck out and keep moving towards energy independence by all means available.



No more nation building.There are certain parts of this world that tragically need to solve their own problems. The US cannot provide a true Pax Americana, and shouldn't try.

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