What would it take?

Russia and Turkey close ranks. A victory for Putin? - CSMonitor.com (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2017/0105/Russia-and-Turkey-close-ranks.-A-victory-for-Putin)

The extent to which the US is being vilified across the board [in Turkey], on a whole range of issues, obviously sets the stage for cooperation with the Russians,” says Bulent Aliriza, director of the Turkey Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in Washington.

“From the macro-geopolitical point of view, this is obviously a victory for Russia,” says Mr. Aliriza, noting the “very clear” significance of a US and NATO ally cooperating so closely with Russia. “Within the region, it is also a victory for Russia because Turkey changed its policy almost 180 degrees in Syria.”


Outmaneuvering in Turkey...which affects parts of Europe and the Middle East

From the article:

Administration officials said the Russians now have two battalions of the prohibited cruise missile. One is still located at Russia’s missile test site at Kapustin Yar in southern Russia near Volgograd. The other was shifted in December from that test site to an operational base elsewhere in the country, according to a senior official who did not provide further details and requested anonymity to discuss recent intelligence reports about the missile.

Fair enough, I am curious to know why the media waited to release the article. Certainly looks bad on their part trying to blame it on Trump.

You straight avoided the answer. I'll ask it again.


In what ways do you think Putin outmaneuvered Obama and the US? Also, what exactly were you looking for in response to counter these Russian moves?

Using Crimea as an example. Russia physically took over/annexed land of another country that we had a treaty with Ukraine, Russia and us as guarantors. And they hold that land today. I would consider that an example of outmanuevering us.

As for the response, that goes to my thread on economic sanctions. Did we want to create an equivalent to the cuban missile crisis in Russia's backyard? Obviously Pres Obama did not - and I do believe public sentiment backed him in not. But would a different President, say Reagan, have found a pressure point that might have worked.

Here is one that we know Russia doesn't like, and who knows how the events would have played out, but you asked for a counter response other then what we did:

February 27th, 2014 is when Crimea's parliament was seized. March 1st the US announces in response to instability in the region, and the threat of "unknown actors" seizing Ukrainian warships with suspected cruise missile capabilities, we are moving THAAD anti-ballistic missile technology to Poland, and immediately beginning work on the long delayed abm shield.

The Russians still don't want ABM tech in Poland, and you would have put a risk to Russian goals, without dropping bombs.

Another, much more risky option, would have been blockading Kaliningrad, using the risk to Poland and Lithuania's borders as the rationale. Sure everyone knows it's really about Crimea, but again, diplomacy doesn't only mean that you roll over and let the other countries walk over your interest.

Would either of those worked, would they have sparked WW3. I don't know. Depends on how crazy Putin is, but I would bet you Crimea would be part of Ukraine again.

You lead. That's how you handle it.

In most case he sat on his hands. Its just funny now why Russia is an issue when before the media and country never questioned anything. Funny how that hypocrisy works.


I listed the above outmaneuvering...Syria and Eastern Europe mostly. But political influence in the Middle east is just shocking. Did you hear, that Turkey is cuddling up with Russia now? Do you know how important Turkey is in that region?

He beat poor Obama down just bout everywhere. There was an world wide ass-kicking tour.

Chico I agree that the last administration wasn't successful in reigning in Putin's unchecked abuses of power, but that's the problem. How do you successfully convince a dictator to check himself without starting a major war against arguably your biggest rival? Clearly sanctions aren't enough, and now that Trump has eliminated those what do we do now? It seems Trump's answer is to buddy up to Russia and ignore whatever line they want to cross next.

Fair enough, I am curious to know why the media waited to release the article. Certainly looks bad on their part trying to blame it on Trump.

Well, what I gathered was that Pres Obama's administration didn't note it in any formal announcements (and I don't know that they should have, but in December there was other news to be focused on...), and someone in NSA felt like now was the time to release it - probably the same someone who thought Flynn's conversations were media worthy

The media, imo, doesn't care whether they look bad, they want as much piled on as they can, and if it's wrong or misleading they can issue a clarification in small print later.

and G1 for you to remain intellectually honest with your expressed statement, I guess that means that, in your eyes, all positive economic news from Jan 20th goes squarely on Trump's positive balance sheet?


I wish the Giants defense could deflect pass's like you guys are doing with Trump.This whole thread is about Trump but Trump supporters are having a hard time defending him so we turn it back on Obama who is gone.
Cred as you and I both know some is and some isn't ,might not be what you want to hear but it's the truth .Trump has fucked up all this Russian shit and it's coming back to haunt him.Could Obama had done more to stop Putin,no,he did as much diplomatically as possible.The last thing anyone wanted was another war .The last thing he was going to do in an election year is tangle with Russia when Americans are sick of Iraq and Afghanistan and still on the border(of war) with Iran.people are bitching about "big goverment " and military spending but if we had gone military with Russia we would be send National Guards Men and Women to Russia to fight becuase we have outsourced the Military (thanks Mr Chaney).Obama hands were tied.

I wish the Giants defense could deflect pass's like you guys are doing with Trump.This whole thread is about Trump but Trump supporters are having a hard time defending him so we turn it back on Obama who is gone.
Cred as you and I both know some is and some isn't ,might not be what you want to hear but it's the truth .Trump has fucked up all this Russian shit and it's coming back to haunt him.Could Obama had done more to stop Putin,no,he did as much diplomatically as possible.The last thing anyone wanted was another war .The last thing he was going to do in an election year is tangle with Russia when Americans are sick of Iraq and Afghanistan and still on the border(of war) with Iran.people are bitching about "big goverment " and military spending but if we had gone military with Russia we would be send National Guards Men and Women to Russia to fight becuase we have outsourced the Military (thanks Mr Chaney).Obama hands were tied.

Nice to edit out the part of my quote that said, ask me in 9 months about Trump. If you think 4 weeks is enough for any administration to set it's footprint in the geopolitical realm then I re-emphasize - hilarious.

"Trump has fucked up all this Russian shit and it's coming back to haunt him" Frickin hilarious

Bye Felicia

Andrew Puzder withdraws as a labor secretary nominee - CNNPolitics.com (http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/15/politics/top-senate-republicans-urge-white-house-to-withdraw-puzder-nomination/)

Bye Felicia

Andrew Puzder withdraws as a labor secretary nominee - CNNPolitics.com (http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/15/politics/top-senate-republicans-urge-white-house-to-withdraw-puzder-nomination/)

This guy is back to flipping burgers....Sad!

Nice to edit out the part of my quote that said, ask me in 9 months about Trump. If you think 4 weeks is enough for any administration to set it's footprint in the geopolitical realm then I re-emphasize - hilarious.

"Trump has fucked up all this Russian shit and it's coming back to haunt him" Frickin hilarious


Cred you started the thread, you asked the question?What I am trying to understand is that how can you wait for 9 months with it going in the shitter after 4 weeks?What would it take for me(us), after four weeks his resignation or impeachment.Yes that is how bad it has become.