The coordinators

Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Today's outcome was disheartening but the team has made big improvements...on offense. The defense is another matter.

I totally agree. This team does sputter in the red zone but they still score points. The D still struggles to hold teams under 25 and that put a lot of pressure on the O. Hopefully in the off season there are improvements made on D.

I can't put the false starts on McVay. What's he suppose to do about that? That is a 100 percent mental error. It's obvious to me that the oline isn't a good run blocking group. They're just not. And then there have been some bad play calls. It looked like we were really missing Reed yesterday. The red zone is a combination of things.

Sean McVay is a solid offensive coordinator. Joe Barry can probably be a decent defensive coordinator with more talent on the defensive side of the ball. It comes down to which you want more - a savvy defensive coordinator who can take subpar talent and turn that unit into one that overachieves, or a middle of the road defensive coordinator who has outstanding talent that makes him look like a genius?

Many will go for the former, but I will tell you this, at some point, I don't care how good the DC is, the defense gets exposed. At least with the latter, you know that you have a solid, talented group on defense, and if they are failing, then it's because of the DC and his scheme. In yesterday's game, Barry called the correct defensive call, but the players didn't execute. And when the players did execute, the offensive players made great plays showed they were better.

So, as much as I'd like a genius DC who's coaching outstanding talent on the defensive side of the ball, I'm not sure if we're going to get that. I think SM will focus more on bringing in better players on the defensive side of the ball, and give Joe Barry all the help he needs to succeed. Simply put, defenses win championships, but offenses get you to those championships. So, I think we're about 90% there on offense, but the defense has to catch up. You give our coordinators one more year with better talent and see what happens from there.

I can't put the false starts on McVay. What's he suppose to do about that? That is a 100 percent mental error. It's obvious to me that the oline isn't a good run blocking group. They're just not. And then there have been some bad play calls. It looked like we were really missing Reed yesterday. The red zone is a combination of things.

I know false starts can be fixed because other teams have far fewer of them than we do. Since it can be fixed and needs to be fixed then the coaches must fix it. I don't know how they're supposed to fix it and I don't care. Just fix it!

This coordinator thread quickly devolved into yet another discussion of players. Let's get back to the coordinators.

Sean McVay bothers me more than Joe Barry as a coordinator because he has better players to work with than Barry does, yet McVay hasn't solved problems that the offense has had all season long.

This offense goes well until we get to the opposing team's 40 yard-line. At that point, it gets progressively less effective until it bogs down in the Red Zone, if it gets that far, until the play-calling becomes downright stupid inside the 10 yard-line.

- We settled for too many field goals last night. Long ones, too. Where are the effective plays inside the opponent's 40 yard-line?

- Why do we have so many procedure penalties, especially in the Red Zone? It's not one or two players or positions that get the penalties. It's interior linemen and tackles, tight ends, and even wide receivers. Who do we blame for that not getting fixed?

- We get a first down on the 2 yard-line. What do you do there? I'll tell you. You give the ball to Fat Rob and he scores. Red Zone 101. But not McVay. He calls a roll-out. It was open but Kirk threw a poor pass and a lineman committed a penalty on the play. That is a lost down and a penalty that should not have happened.

- Later on McVay calls a fade pattern in the end zone to DeSean Jackson versus Patrick Peterson. Are you kidding me? Go down on the field, stand between Jackson and Peterson and tell me if you think that pass could ever be completed. Of course Peterson stopped it like he was shooing away a fly. Not to mention that, in general, Kirk is poor at throwing fade passes.

- Here is another question I'm asking myself about the Red Zone play calling: What is Jay Gruden's role in this nonsense? Does he approve of these play calls? Does he ever overrule McVay's calls? Does he call some of these plays himself? I don't know. What I do know is that Gruden hasn't fixed the problem.

Agreed.

On that play Crowder was open on the other side of the field.
But it feels like we've seen that same playcall and execution again and again when inside the 10: a quick fade where KC just throws it that way into tight coverage without looking for any other solutions...

I have a hard time determining if that play is 100% bad playcalling or if KC could've taken the liberty of looking and throwing elsewhere... I mean he's the QB, he has to have the right to look for a better solution when the receiver is so obviously not open, hasn't he?!

I hope that McCloughan himself forces Gruden to fire Barry! And I can only hope that McCloughan does the same with McVay. There are coordinators on the college level that can mix and blend up the play calling better! Perry Fewell would make the logical choice for the DC. Maybe then the team will return to the 4-3.

As a fan I know McCloughan is a smart football guy. I'm already looking past both Barry and McVay.,

I hope that McCloughan himself forces Gruden to fire Barry! And I can only hope that McCloughan does the same with McVay. There are coordinators on the college level that can mix and blend up the play calling better! Perry Fewell would make the logical choice for the DC. Maybe then the team will return to the 4-3.

As a fan I know McCloughan is a smart football guy. I'm already looking past both Barry and McVay.,

I certain would not get rid of McVay. Barry im up in the air depending on who McC/Gruden would be satisfied with if they would become available. Defensive side of the ball is lacking when it comes to talent.

I'm happy with McVay overall. I have a beef with the red zone.

But Barry is not the answer. I can't think of one time that he has ever elevated the defense's performance to a level beyond the talent available. Which means he adds no value. He gets out of the group whatever the talent level that McCloughan hands him.

Yes they need defensive linemen and a rangey safety and I'd add some athletic and aggressive MLBs to that too. But if you're talking solely about the coordinator, what you should be looking for is whether we get production beyond that which we should, given talent. Can he scheme up and get pressure when we really need it, can he get the team communicating at an excellent level, can he get the team to play with tremendous discipline, can he get the team to recognize tendencies in opposing offenses and get a half step jump on the play?

No no no and no. Our defense wins only when Norman, Kerrigan, Murph, Smith, Cravens, or Baker win their matchups. That's it. Talent-driven success and talent driven failure.

The coordinator's job to to get the sum of the parts to add up to something greater. Barry just doesn't. He needs to be replaced.

I have to agree with KI Skins Fan. The most troubling thing to me is the fact that this offense can move the ball at will against even the better defenses in the league, but cannot put it in the end zone against anybody...unless it's a 30-50 yard bomb. When Jackson caught that ball on Sunday and was tripped up at the 5...instantly I knew we were only getting 3 points. That's a problem that has persisted all season, with no evidence of improvement - at all. To me that's all McVay.

I think the defense is producing about what we can expect for the talent that is there. I think Barry is doing his best (liked the corner blitzes this weekend) with what he has...he can only get so creative without exposing the weaker links, so unless the players themselves step it up and play above their talent level, it is what it is...

mcvay hurt his cause yesterday, now the media nationally is talking about our RZ issues