Joe Gibbs lied

Skinsguy don't even bother with off, he will argue till you are blue in the face. He is never wrong so there is no point in trying to make him see the light cause he is never wrong.

However I agree with your assesment that they were use mostly for blocking and did get their FAIR SHARE of passes. Comparing them to todays TE is unfair as offense and defensive game plans have changed along with a better crop of athletic TE's. Seems to me that the West Coast offense was in its iffancy stages in the 80's.

Keep up the good posts and ignore those who, well you know what I mean here.


Of course he thinks he's always right. After someone keeps telling themselves that over and over again, they eventually start to believe that is the case when the rest of us can see what is obvious. That is why I say Off is arguing for the sake of argument.

Its funny, but if he actually took time to read and understand what others post, he might not be so inclined to argue.

Skinsguy and CRT3, You two aren't exactly open to other interpretations either. I think it's funny how you'll blast someone for it but can't possibly fathom it was Gibbs that held this team back last year. If you want to criticize someone for being closed minded, look to yourself first before you make that accusation.

The thing is, when it comes to things like this Offiss is pretty damn correct most of the time. He gave you hard numbers to look at, and you can't really say anything to it besides bringing it down to a personal level. He also seems to know a hell of a lot about the Giants. Someone was arguing with him about LT and he was right - something TAFKAS found an article on.

Offiss doesn't drink the Kool-aid, and he doesn't just follow someone and support their actions no matter what. He's normally a very objective person and will give credit where credit is due. If he has different views from you, so what. They joy is this board used to be able to argue their side without someone launching some sort of personal attack on them. Lately that seems to be changing.

So I said what I think, does that make me close minded? I did take a jab at Off but he somtimes deserves it. But what is most interesting about your staement is that you said Off gave hard numbers. Sure numbers don't lie but the schemes have changed over the years which was my point. I said "However I agree with your assesment that they were use mostly for blocking and did get their FAIR SHARE of passes. Comparing them to todays TE is unfair as offense and defensive game plans have changed along with a better crop of athletic TE's. Seems to me that the West Coast offense was in its iffancy stages in the 80's."
So the hard numbers don't neccesarly match up with reality, or do they?

Then match them up against TE's of that era and examine them.

CRT3, both you and skinsfan have not agreed with me. Which is fine, many people here don't necessarily share my opinions. Some do. However, most everyone can argue against me without things getting personal, and that's how I like it. We can both argue our point, but at the end of the day we're all Redskins fans with a lot of knowledge to be shared. It's amazing how much you can learn from hearing other people's opinions and being open to others. The worst thing I see on this site is someone telling another person because they don't think Gibbs is the messiah, or saying that he had problems last year that they're no longer a fan. Fans should be most critical of their own team, not so optimistic they look foolish.

The one thing that pisses me off most is when it gets into a dick-swinging contest in here. Daseal is right. Sometimes it just gets WAY too personal. Most of us that have been here awhile know how other people think and we accept that opinion.

Personally, I value dissenting opinions because on more than one occassion, people have pointed hard facts out to me and due to that information, I have changed my mind.

Daseal is right.
Words rarely spoken! Sorry - I must savor the moment!

Then match them up against TE's of that era and examine them.

CRT3, both you and skinsfan have not agreed with me. Which is fine, many people here don't necessarily share my opinions. Some do. However, most everyone can argue against me without things getting personal, and that's how I like it. We can both argue our point, but at the end of the day we're all Redskins fans with a lot of knowledge to be shared. It's amazing how much you can learn from hearing other people's opinions and being open to others. The worst thing I see on this site is someone telling another person because they don't think Gibbs is the messiah, or saying that he had problems last year that they're no longer a fan. Fans should be most critical of their own team, not so optimistic they look foolish.
Well put, but I have never claimed Gibbs to be the mesiah and I am still a huge fan. In fact to prove how big a fan I am, I went to a very high level business meeting the other day with not a tie and jacket like my cohorts but my retro Arrington jersey. Sure broke the stuffy mood of the meeting and the deal got done much to my favor. Plus, I got to rub it in a little further with a Eagles cohort who just never has the balls to do that. So I would say no one around here would ever claim that I am not a diehard. No on to the comparisons, lets pick the top 5 from the early 80's and the to[ 5 from last year and compare.

2004
Crumpler - Atlanta = 48 Rec 774 Yds. 6 TDs
Gonzalex - KC = 102 REC 1258 Yds. 7 TDs
Gates - SD = 81 REC 964 Yds. 13TDs
Shockey - NYG = 61 REC 661 Yds. 6 TD's
Johnson -SF = 82 REC 825 Yds. 2 TDs
(Heap - Bal Played 6 Games and Winslow - Clev Played 2) These 2 Could be the best of the bunch

1983
Winslow Sr. - SD 88 Rec. 1172 Yds. 8 TDs
Newsome - Clev 89 Rec. 970 Yds. 6 TDs
Christenson - Oak 92 Rec. 1247 Yds. 12 TDs
Caufman- GB 54 Rec. 814 Yds. 11 TDs
Cosbie - Dal 46 Rec. 588 Yds 6 TDs


So a slight edge to last years guys over 1983 which was choosen as it had the consensus of carreer years for all of the above. There are more 2 TE offenses now and the tight end is utilized more then ever. What might be your thoughts on this

To me 83 and 04 look fairly similar in terms of receptions.

I don't doubt you're diehard, nor do I doubt it about anyone on the site. I wasn't trying to crack on your dedication, I'm more than sure it's there. The problem is people on this site being accused of it.

Skinsguy and CRT3, You two aren't exactly open to other interpretations either. I think it's funny how you'll blast someone for it but can't possibly fathom it was Gibbs that held this team back last year. If you want to criticize someone for being closed minded, look to yourself first before you make that accusation.

The thing is, when it comes to things like this Offiss is pretty damn correct most of the time. He gave you hard numbers to look at, and you can't really say anything to it besides bringing it down to a personal level. He also seems to know a hell of a lot about the Giants. Someone was arguing with him about LT and he was right - something TAFKAS found an article on.

Offiss doesn't drink the Kool-aid, and he doesn't just follow someone and support their actions no matter what. He's normally a very objective person and will give credit where credit is due. If he has different views from you, so what. They joy is this board used to be able to argue their side without someone launching some sort of personal attack on them. Lately that seems to be changing.


Hey pot, the kettle's calling you! :vomit-smi

Daseal,

Talk about someone bringing something down to a personal level..you have just done so in one post and whatever conversation/argument that Off and I were having had nothing to do with you whatsoever.