All things offseason discussion part II

Tony Dungy should have just kept his mouth shut.

Yeah I agree.

Your example would be different though, because someone saying he didn't want a black player in this era would be straight race discrimination. Dungy didn't say he wouldn't have drafted Sam because he was gay, it's because of the attention he would have brought.

With Vick, that's a different kind of attention. We don't really know how these NFL players accepted Vick's return versus how they'll accept Sam, but I would guess the latter will cause quite a bit more attention, both negative and neutral. Edit: And I believe Sam will certainly have more potential for locker room problems.

Like someone else said, I don't think Dungy is wrong, but he comes across as a jerk for saying those things out loud.


In other news:

Norv Turner: Teddy Bridgewater worth a top-10 pick - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000367108/article/norv-turner-teddy-bridgewater-worth-a-top10-pick)

I hope this dude can become a legit QB. AP deserves better in his last elite years than the likes of Cassell, Freeman, or Ponder.

Really rooting for Bridgewater to have a monster rookie year. You'd think that the scouts would learn that a good or bad pro day really should not hurt or help someone's draft status.

Really rooting for Bridgewater to have a monster rookie year. You'd think that the scouts would learn that a good or bad pro day really should not hurt or help someone's draft status.

Same here. I'm a huge fan of his game.

From what I've heard, pro scouts were never that high on Bridgewater. Supposedly it was merely the media that had a huge crush on Teddy, which evaporated after his less-than-spectacular workout. Who knows if that's true or not. But either way, if Pro Days and Combines were indicative of a player's talents, JaMarcus Russell would be tearing it up in the pros (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2007-03-15-russell-pro-day_N.htm). But they're not and he's not, so suck it, Teddy haters.

Honestly, I wasn't impressed with any of the QBs in this year's draft except for Bridgewater, Aaron Murray(who has a smoking hot GF (http://gamedayr.com/lifestyle/wags-and-babes/aaron-murray-girlfriend-kacie-mcdonnell-photos-88182/), by the way), and Johhny Manziel(although to a lesser degree than the other two).

It's completely effed up that the perception is a gay guy would cause more problems/distractions than a guy running a dog fighting ring, a guy doing blow in Vegas bathrooms, guys beating their wives, guys MURDERING people (yeah, Ray Ray is guilty, we all know it). It's absurd, to be honest, and Dungy is a total idiot for saying anything at all. Whether you agree with it or not, there are already gay dudes in the NFL. Probably some who've gotten married, what with the laws changing rapidly from state to state.

Derrick Brooks, for the win.

Tony Dungy clarifies comments on Michael Sam of St. Louis Rams - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11248177/tony-dungy-clarifies-comments-michael-sam-st-louis-rams)

Speaking on a conference call with the national media Tuesday to discuss his entry into the Hall, Brooks was asked about the Dungy comments. He prefaced his answer by saying he would reserve judgment because he hadn't spoken with Dungy.

"I just generally feel that he's probably saying what 31 other teams were probably thinking in that regard," Brooks said. "They didn't draft him, for whatever reason. He was just saying, if he were a head coach, this is how he would have approached the situation, or approached the player's situation."

Thing is if Sam was a first rd pick none of this would be an issue. The fact he's a marginal player is what makes him not worth the media baggage he brings.

Dungy's remark, in light of his past statements about other "distraction" players, strikes me as incredibly hypocritical. As SS said, if it is performance based, fine - just say that. To couch it the way he did, however, certainly creates more than a mere inference of gender preference discrimination.

@ SirLK26: If "someone saying he didn't want a black player" is impermissible discrimination, how is someone saying "I don't want a gay player" not impermissible discrimination.

Based on his statement, juxtaposed against the statements Dungy has made about other "distraction" players, the only reason Dungy wouldn't draft Sam is b/c of his homosexuality. You can couch it any way you like, but that is the crux of it. Alleging Sam's homosexuality brings "a different kind of attention," is the type of evasive arguments used in racial discrimination for years - football has seen similar disguised discrimination before: intelligent QB's v. athletic QB's, Dungy himself faced similar hidden discrimination - "Sure, he's qualified but I've known Coach X for years."

Jackie Robinson was a huge "distraction" - was Branch Rickey right or wrong to put him on the team? If Rickey was right to put him on the team in that time and place. Isn't Dungy wrong in this time and place to exclude Sam?

[Yes, I know. Sam is not the talent that Robinson was, but, again, the debate here is not whether he had the talent to be drafted but, regardless of talent, and as with Robinson, whether Sam's mere presence would be too disruptive and hinder the team.]

Dungy is free to speak his mind. Others are free to agree or disagree with him. Bottom line, is it okay "in this era" to permit discrimination based on gender preference in a football locker room setting? You (and Dungy) apparently believe it is. Others believe it is not. Quite frankly, I find neither side's argument particularly persuasive of any imperative answer.

Bottom line for me, if he can play with the big boys, all else is moot.

<snip>

@ SirLK26: If "someone saying he didn't want a black player" is impermissible discrimination, how is someone saying "I don't want a gay player" not impermissible discrimination.

<snip>

Jackie Robinson was a huge "distraction" - was Branch Rickey right or wrong to put him on the team? If Rickey was right to put him on the team in that time and place. Isn't Dungy wrong in this time and place to exclude Sam?

[Yes, I know. Sam is not the talent that Robinson was, but, again, the debate here is not whether he had the talent to be drafted but, regardless of talent, and as with Robinson, whether Sam's mere presence would be too disruptive and hinder the team.]

<snip>

Bottom line for me, if he can play with the big boys, all else is moot.

Because if someone were to say they wouldn't draft a black player in this day and age, it would be straight up racial discrimination. What distraction would a straight male black player who played college ball at a high level bring?

If Sam were gay, but Dungy knew he wouldn't be a distraction, Dungy would draft him. He's not "discriminating" against Sam because he's gay, but because of the distraction he would bring. There's a difference.

Jackie Robinson was worth every bit of distraction he brought, being one of the best major league players ever and all. Sam might not even make the Rams' roster. I think the distraction versus what you get out of the distraction should definitely play a part.

I think if you were an NFL coach, you would have a different view. Football isn't all about talent. It's about teamwork, camaraderie, and all that good stuff. Not saying definitively the Rams won't play well together because of Sam, but Dungy apparently thinks things might not work so well over there. And, according to Derrick Brooks, it's likely that's a near-unanimous consensus among NFL teams.

If Sam were gay, but Dungy knew he wouldn't be a distraction, Dungy would draft him. He's not "discriminating" against Sam because he's gay, but because of the distraction he would bring. There's a difference.

But the "distraction" he would bring is because he is gay, you can't disassociate the two. This is ridiculous for two reasons; one, it implies the most blatant homophobia possible, and two, it implies that talent does not outweigh his being gay.

This is not just on Dungy; it's the entire NFL. DeAndre Hopkins covered his combine hotel room in shit and piss, which to me makes him certifiably insane. Shit and piss!!! He was drafted 27th overall.

The SEC defensive player of the year should've gone higher than he did. Only one other SEC defensive player of the year was drafted outside the top 33, Chad Lavalais from LSU. Absurd.

Michael Sam: Only One Other SEC Defensive Player of the Year Has Been Drafted Outside the First Two Rounds | The Big Lead (http://thebiglead.com/2014/02/10/michael-sam-only-one-other-sec-defensive-player-of-the-year-has-been-drafted-outside-the-first-two-rounds/)

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