Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.


Well unfortunately there are alot of native americans and blacks that are born on a reservation or in a hood because that is where our ancestors put their ancestors. Not exactly a level playing field to begin your climb on the ladder of success. You are greatly underestimating the past and discounting its shaping of the future here.

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

You are dangerously close to coming off as a jerk.

You are generalizing horribly and not understanding (or just totally ignoring) the concept of power dynamics.

Just because a small few want to point fingers and not pull their weight doesn't mean an entire community doesn't want to. And as far as I know, Native Americans have never stomped their feet and complained about their plight. They made the best of what was an entirely racist and ridiculous situation thanks to Indian Termination Policy back between the 40's-60's.

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

+1 Regardless of how this is taken, he is right. Aforementioned groups back the F up and quit being money grabbers. If it hasn't been a problem for the past 20 years, why now?

Ochocinco said it best, "Pfft, child please."

@KeithBritton86

So Gordon gets another speeding ticket & passenger cited for marijuana possession according to @WKYCSports - unreal


Gordon issued speeding ticket (http://www.wkyc.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2014/05/30/gordon-issued-speeding-ticket/9785915/)

This guy is trying his best to be kicked out of the league. He's off to a good start.

@KeithBritton86

So Gordon gets another speeding ticket & passenger cited for marijuana possession according to @WKYCSports - unreal


Gordon issued speeding ticket (http://www.wkyc.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2014/05/30/gordon-issued-speeding-ticket/9785915/)

This guy is trying his best to be kicked out of the league. He's off to a good start.

Psh, if people like Pacman Jones and Mike Vick can't get kicked out of the league, nobody will. Especially not over weed possession. Josh Gordon can toke till he chokes, but at worst he'd be indefinitely suspended.

I would be more offended by the Cleveland Indians logo simply because it's turning their race into a cartoon character, where as the Redskins logo is not. To me, the Redskins logo looks quite honorable, and should be since it was the Native American community that provided the team with the logo.

Honestly if we could keep the logo, uniform, etc I would be more then happy to see the team name changed to Warriors.

Ironically enough it might just be trying to deflect attention but I remember asking myself when the name thing first came out isn't Chief Wahoo more offensive? Which is kind of like saying "Sure I called you an albino (http://youtu.be/rtFwVTwWdwY?t=1s) white man, I mean kracker, I mean European American, but that guy over there said that you guys have small roosters (http://youtu.be/ZjO3GUsQ3yc?t=23s)."

Washington Based NFL Team Headquarted in Ashburn, Virginia with a stadium located in Landover, Maryland ask fans to tweet their #WashingtonBasedNFLTeamHeadquartedinAshburnVAwStad iumlocatedinLandoverMdPride to Sen. Harry Reid. What could go wrong? http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/images/smilies/trollface.png (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/05/29/redskins-ask-fans-to-tweet-their-redskinspride-to-sen-reid-what-could-go-wrong/)

It predictably ended poorly for them.

Fixed your link description brah. Yur Welc0m3.

it just seems like everyone that's super adamant about changing the name aren't actual native americans, but white liberals trying to get press/make a name/act like some white knight riding in.

the bullets name change happened because the owner wanted it to. DC had a high crime rate and a lot of gun-related homicides (and baltimore had always been near or at #1 in that stat too), and he didn't like that connotation with the team... for what i remember about it.

it just seems like everyone that's super adamant about changing the name aren't actual native americans, but white liberals trying to get press/make a name/act like some white knight riding in.

the bullets name change happened because the owner wanted it to. DC had a high crime rate and a lot of gun-related homicides (and baltimore had always been near or at #1 in that stat too), and he didn't like that connotation with the team... for what i remember about it.

^agreed.

Hypothetically, what in the world changes if the Redskins change their name. Do Native American's live in a better world, more accepting, with more advantages?

Do we change the way we see Native American's in the world, now that white liberals (no knock on liberals) have taken up their cause for them?

I mean- I just don't see the end game here. Calling a word offensive because it used to be a slur, just doesn't make sense to me. It's undergone amelioration. If we went through the lexicon and removed all the words that USED to be some sort of slur, we would have to re-write the dictionary.

At this point, it's a tired argument. I'm ready to just change the name and move on. I think this debate has been a slap in the face to the Native American's- who won't get their history back. It's like all the aid we give to these 3rd world countries. A little pat on the back, "hey guys, we care".

African nations don't won't our patronizing aid, they want us to invest into their economy and profit off their own success. I don't know... going on a bid of a tangent, but I just think this whole debate is nauseating. It's one thing if it were organized by a Native American constituency who found the word discriminatory.

I'm ready to change the name, and move on.

I really hope they don't change the name. I'm about as liberal as they can come but even I have a line. Doesn't Harry Reid have better things to do than let the Redskins name keep him up at night?

F outta here.

Josh Gordon of Cleveland Browns caught speeding while passenger had marijuana - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11009140/josh-gordon-cleveland-browns-caught-speeding-passenger-had-marijuana)

this guy must not have a brain. dumbass