Maurice Clarett Episode II

Here you go again. You just have to make it personal, don't you? Well you called me out, so here goes.

First, of all, didn't that championship game go to multiple overtimes? Explain to me how Ohio State "trounced" Miami in a game that went to overtime. And most people that actually know anything about college football will tell you that the Buckeyes rode their defense to that championship, not the legs of Maurice Clarett. It was 17-17 at the end of regulation and the wonderful Clarett ended the game, plus two overtimes with a whopping 47 yards on 23 carries. WOW, just a shade over 2 yards per carry. Boy, you really got me there Daseal.

Second of all, I know that your comment about Clarett being "two times what Larry Johnson is" was only meant to get under my skin, because you couldn't actually be serious, so I hesitate to dignify such a comment by getting into a long tirade over why such a statement is so ludicrous, but I'll try to let the facts speak for themselves.

2002 Season:
Clarett: 222 attempts, 1237 yards, 5.6 Yd/att, 16 tds (and he missed three full games and two partial games because he's brittle.....I mean he was injured)
Johnson: 271 attempts, 2087 yards, 7.7 Yd/att, 20 tds (and he missed zero games for injury)

In what category is Clarett better? Next time, please have some support for your argument.

In addition, when Clarett gets drafted in the first round like LJ, then maybe I'll give your argument some credit. Right now Clarett will be LUCKY to sniff the 4th or 5th round. But I suppose that's just because every single NFL coach and GM are just not as smart as Daseal because they don't realize that he's "two times" what LJ is as a back. I guess Daseal is right, and every other professional scout in the NFL is wrong. I guess Mel Kiper, whose life it is to project college players into the NFL, doesn't know what he's talking about when he says there is no way Clarett goes before the 5th or 6th rounds. That's right, everyone else in the world of football is wrong, but Daseal is right.

As for work ethic: Explain to me why Clarett, who's had nothing better to do with his time but work out over the past two years, quit the combine after posting a 40 time that puts him in competition with fullbacks and athletic tight ends? Football speed? Where do you see that? I've not heard a single NFL scout say that. Oh, he rebounded nicely at this last individual workout? Great for him. I hope he really impressed those 5 or 6 teams that even cared enough to send somebody to witness it.

As for the "crybaby" comment. Vermeil apologized to LJ for making that comment and said it was taken out of context. By the end of the year, he was singing his praises. And if you want to know what kind of player/guy Clarett is, why don't you just ask coach Neuheisel? Clarett would be lucky to only be called a "crybaby" by Neuheisal. But I guess that particular former coach's comments, and the fact that he SUSPENDED HIM FROM THE TEAM FOR A FULL YEAR really mean that he loves Clarett. Come on, seriously, this is perhaps the weakest argument you've ever tried making (and that's really saying something coming from me)

Clarett is a joke. Plain and simple.

PSU, I have to go with Daseal on Clarett, we have both been backing the kid since his troubles started, Clarett IMO has been blackballed by both college and the NFL because he wouldn't get with their program. I told you before Penn state is my team, love JOEPA, but Clarett is going to be a much better back than Johnson. The only difference I see between Clarett and Emmitt is their heads, Emmitt was a very smart player with a quality attitude which greatly aided his fantastic career, there are guy's who are tremendous football players maybe the best on their teams and possibly the worst practice players you will ever see I think thats Clarett. I believe he has been frustraighted having to be judged as an olympian rather than a football player. If given the chance this kid IMO will be an all-pro.

I also didn't see anywhere that Daseal made his post personal, personal is when you take a cheap shot at an individual, he didn't do that, it's just a difference of opinion not a slap in the face. :grouphug: :)

offiss:

The NCAA did not blackball Clarett. Maurice Clarett hired an agent to represent him in his athletic career. No one had a gun to his head forcing him to do that. And the NCAA rule is that NO ONE who hires an agent gets their NCAA eligibility back. That is not a rule that applies only to Clarett; the NCAA bans EVERY athlete who does that. By the way, that is why Williams (the USC WR) ALSO did not play college football last year.

Clarett made a decision. That decision had consequences. He then suffered those consequences when his decision was deemed to be wrong by a series of judges in Federal courts. That is what would happen to you or me if we made a decision that a Federal judge decided was not in keeping with the law. Clarett is not a victim of an NCAA blackball.

Now the NFL may be a totally different story ... Particularly when Williams get drafted early in the 1st round and if Clarett is not drafted at all.

If I'm an NFL GM, I would NOT take Clarett because I think he is the 2005 version of Ron Dayne - except Dayne was and is faster. They are about the same size and have very similar running styles and both looked really good in college. But if I'm an NFL GM, I'm not trying to build a college football team.

I predict Clarett ends up with Martz and the Rams

offiss:

The NCAA did not blackball Clarett. Maurice Clarett hired an agent to represent him in his athletic career. No one had a gun to his head forcing him to do that. And the NCAA rule is that NO ONE who hires an agent gets their NCAA eligibility back. That is not a rule that applies only to Clarett; the NCAA bans EVERY athlete who does that. By the way, that is why Williams (the USC WR) ALSO did not play college football last year.

Clarett made a decision. That decision had consequences. He then suffered those consequences when his decision was deemed to be wrong by a series of judges in Federal courts. That is what would happen to you or me if we made a decision that a Federal judge decided was not in keeping with the law. Clarett is not a victim of an NCAA blackball.

Now the NFL may be a totally different story ... Particularly when Williams get drafted early in the 1st round and if Clarett is not drafted at all.

If I'm an NFL GM, I would NOT take Clarett because I think he is the 2005 version of Ron Dayne - except Dayne was and is faster. They are about the same size and have very similar running styles and both looked really good in college. But if I'm an NFL GM, I'm not trying to build a college football team.


SC, Clarett took a shot at entering the NFL and lost that's correct, but just because judges ruled against him doesn't make it right, why do think the NCAA and the NFL fought him every step of the way? It was to stuff their own pockets with cash, it was age discrimination how dare they tell this kid he's not allowed to make a living, and then say oh by the way your no longer afforded an education either, talk about having a student and a human beings best interests at heart? What a JOKE! Then we happen to find out that the school who decieded they were rightous enough to pass judgement on a kid who wants to play pro has more skeletons in their closet than Clarett. Bottom line who wants to tell me Claretts grads were scholarship material? He was recruited as a football player illegally and then everyone blows a gasket when the monster THEY created wants to leave the lab.

As for M.Williams he recieved the rawest deal of them all, only after a judge ruled that underclassmen could enter the NFL draft did he hire an agent and prepare for the draft, that decision we know was overturned, yet the NCAA in all their wisdom thumbed their arrogant nose at the kid and said hit the road, In other words he's told he's not allowed to make a living in the NFL, not becuase he's not good enough, but because basically they said we haven't made enough money off of you ourselves even though we aren't going to give you a nickle of that revenue you generate. And to insure nobody else ever challenges us again we are now kicking you out of college. What HYPOCRITES! How many years have we heard these colleges tell us about player's who left for the usfl and left college early will not make it after football without an education? This education that they valued for the college student that they are so interested in him recieving because they care so much about what happens to him after his high paying NFL carreer is over, now say screw you and your education because you tried to play in the NFL! Williams played by the rules that were in force at the time he declaired, it's not his fault someone changed the rules.

As for the Clarett, Dayne comparison? I don't see it, Clarett hits the holes very hard and is very shifty in the hole, and powers his way through the smallest of openings. Dayne on the other hand played deep in the backfield in college and never really had to hit the holes with force he just break a lot of arm tackles and outrun everbody, Dayne is probably the weekest back I have seen at his size he has no leg drive whatsoever, he approaches the line half heartedly and waits for contact which he usually finds, holes close quickly in the NFL, I still think Daynes problems are all in his head, but I will guarentee you Clarett will attack opposing defenses. I don't think we will do it but IMO Clarett would be an ideal back for Gibbs, if we have a chance to take this kid from the 4th rd and on I say we do it.

In the end of this whole discussion, I don't think that even if he is there in the 4th or 9th round do I think we should take him. We have two runningbacks, one of them, whether you like him or not has rushed for a ridiculous amount of yards in each of his seasons as a pro. We have many, MANY more needs than runningback. Whether Clarett is great or not I think is moot. It's the fact that we already have our star so why pick someone else to rock the boat?

PSU, I have to go with Daseal on Clarett, we have both been backing the kid since his troubles started, Clarett IMO has been blackballed by both college and the NFL because he wouldn't get with their program. I told you before Penn state is my team, love JOEPA, but Clarett is going to be a much better back than Johnson. The only difference I see between Clarett and Emmitt is their heads, Emmitt was a very smart player with a quality attitude which greatly aided his fantastic career, there are guy's who are tremendous football players maybe the best on their teams and possibly the worst practice players you will ever see I think thats Clarett. I believe he has been frustraighted having to be judged as an olympian rather than a football player. If given the chance this kid IMO will be an all-pro.

I also didn't see anywhere that Daseal made his post personal, personal is when you take a cheap shot at an individual, he didn't do that, it's just a difference of opinion not a slap in the face. :grouphug: :)

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I just don't see it. The guy had injury concerns coming into college and then missed 3 full games and 2 partials because of various injuries (shoulders and knees). If he can't handle a 12 game college schedule, what is he going to do when guys like Lavar and Ray Lewis get a hold of him?

And the personal shot by Daseal was addressing me personally and comparing LJ to Clarrett (more less saying he's two times the back......which I'm still waiting to see some support for), and bringing up the "crybaby" comment made by Vermeil. A relevant comparison to this thread would have been Clarett versus any other RB in this year's Draft. But Daseal knows I am steadfastly loyal to my PSU boys, and he doesn't like me, so he took a shot at getting under my skin. Anyways, completely off topic here....

I'll just maintain that I don't think Clarett has shown anything to indicate he can be a good, dependable RB in the NFL. His body is suspect, his speed is suspect, his character is suspect, and he's two years removed from playing football (these concerns are consistent among all scouting reports I've seen on him). And I think he's actually as far from a Gibbs-type guy as you can get. But, that's just my opinion.

As for the NCAA: Rules exist for a reason, and you have to play by them. You want a few million bucks when you are 21-22 years old for playing professional football? Then play by the NFL's rules. You want to make it to the NFL and maybe get a free education at the same time (although apparently not at Ohio State), then you have to play by the NCAA rules. People who don't like to play by the rules aren't people I want on my football team. Guys like Clarett think they are entitled to something, or that the world owes them something, and, therefore, don't think the rules apply to them. Well guess what, the rules do apply to Maurice, and every other player that has come to the NFL for the last few decades (agreed, M. Williams was stuck in no-man's land......but if it was me, I'd have waited for the appeal). I don't feel sorry for anyone who bucks the system and burns their bridges because they think the rules shouldn't apply to them. He said FU to OSU, he said FU to the NFL, and they said FU right back. I'm cool with that. Nobody forced Clarett to make the decisions he made. They didn't create a monster. If it was OSU, the NFL, and NCAA's fault that Clarett turned out the way he did, then why do the other thousands of NCAA atheletes not act the same way? Sorry, but I'm big on personal responsibility. Not a fan of excuses and pointing the finger at others for your own shortcomings, and that's what Clarett has done as far as I can tell.
The NFL and NCAA want to make money off of players? So be it. In return they are getting the training they need to be physically and mentally ready for the NFL.
Ironically, if Clarett had played by the rules at OSU and entered the draft this year after three years at OSU, he'd probably be a first rounder, make millions more than he will be making, so hopefully lesson learned for his sake.

I'd like to add Clarett to the list of topics I wish would go away ;)

Agreed.

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I just don't see it. The guy had injury concerns coming into college and then missed 3 full games and 2 partials because of various injuries (shoulders and knees). If he can't handle a 12 game college schedule, what is he going to do when guys like Lavar and Ray Lewis get a hold of him?

And the personal shot by Daseal was addressing me personally and comparing LJ to Clarrett (more less saying he's two times the back......which I'm still waiting to see some support for), and bringing up the "crybaby" comment made by Vermeil. A relevant comparison to this thread would have been Clarett versus any other RB in this year's Draft. But Daseal knows I am steadfastly loyal to my PSU boys, and he doesn't like me, so he took a shot at getting under my skin. Anyways, completely off topic here....

I'll just maintain that I don't think Clarett has shown anything to indicate he can be a good, dependable RB in the NFL. His body is suspect, his speed is suspect, his character is suspect, and he's two years removed from playing football (these concerns are consistent among all scouting reports I've seen on him). And I think he's actually as far from a Gibbs-type guy as you can get. But, that's just my opinion.

As for the NCAA: Rules exist for a reason, and you have to play by them. You want a few million bucks when you are 21-22 years old for playing professional football? Then play by the NFL's rules. You want to make it to the NFL and maybe get a free education at the same time (although apparently not at Ohio State), then you have to play by the NCAA rules. People who don't like to play by the rules aren't people I want on my football team. Guys like Clarett think they are entitled to something, or that the world owes them something, and, therefore, don't think the rules apply to them. Well guess what, the rules do apply to Maurice, and every other player that has come to the NFL for the last few decades (agreed, M. Williams was stuck in no-man's land......but if it was me, I'd have waited for the appeal). I don't feel sorry for anyone who bucks the system and burns their bridges because they think the rules shouldn't apply to them. He said FU to OSU, he said FU to the NFL, and they said FU right back. I'm cool with that. Nobody forced Clarett to make the decisions he made. They didn't create a monster. If it was OSU, the NFL, and NCAA's fault that Clarett turned out the way he did, then why do the other thousands of NCAA atheletes not act the same way? Sorry, but I'm big on personal responsibility. Not a fan of excuses and pointing the finger at others for your own shortcomings, and that's what Clarett has done as far as I can tell.
The NFL and NCAA want to make money off of players? So be it. In return they are getting the training they need to be physically and mentally ready for the NFL.
Ironically, if Clarett had played by the rules at OSU and entered the draft this year after three years at OSU, he'd probably be a first rounder, make millions more than he will be making, so hopefully lesson learned for his sake.

The reason they don't apply is because many are not physically ready for the NFL. Rules? Who play's buy the rules in college? Almost everyone one of these colleges circumvent the recruiting policies one way or another, why? because they treat it like a buisness not an education why else would they cheat when it comes to recruiting? Why else would they provide the kind of assistance that would allow a person like D.Manley to graduate when he couldn't read, college has nothing to do with education when it comes to many of these kids. To challenge a rule that for all tense and purposes goes against the laws of the land is not anarchy, how many people in our countries history have challenged laws that were just plain wrong and had them overturned, let alone what policies the NCAA or the NFL has come up with, It's funny how these kid's can be drafted into baseball, hockey, basketball, soccer, and any other sport you can name and yet are not allowed in the NFL.

I don't see how applying for the NFL is burning your bridges? Clarett was more than content to leave OHU behind without retribution OSU and the NCAA are the ones who were slaming and painting him as some kind of criminal, that is what they call BLACKBALLING! Take a look at what we have playing in the NFL, and what has played in the NFL, from Ray Lewis to Ray Carruth and all the in betweens, and we have to be told that CLARETT is the bad guy, what crimes has he committed? What drug tests has he failed? Yes the NFL and NCAA calling Clarett a bad guy, what a joke!

The reason they don't apply is because many are not physically ready for the NFL. Rules? Who play's buy the rules in college? Almost everyone one of these colleges circumvent the recruiting policies one way or another, why? because they treat it like a buisness not an education why else would they cheat when it comes to recruiting? Why else would they provide the kind of assistance that would allow a person like D.Manley to graduate when he couldn't read, college has nothing to do with education when it comes to many of these kids. To challenge a rule that for all tense and purposes goes against the laws of the land is not anarchy, how many people in our countries history have challenged laws that were just plain wrong and had them overturned, let alone what policies the NCAA or the NFL has come up with, It's funny how these kid's can be drafted into baseball, hockey, basketball, soccer, and any other sport you can name and yet are not allowed in the NFL.

I don't see how applying for the NFL is burning your bridges? Clarett was more than content to leave OHU behind without retribution OSU and the NCAA are the ones who were slaming and painting him as some kind of criminal, that is what they call BLACKBALLING! Take a look at what we have playing in the NFL, and what has played in the NFL, from Ray Lewis to Ray Carruth and all the in betweens, and we have to be told that CLARETT is the bad guy, what crimes has he committed? What drug tests has he failed? Yes the NFL and NCAA calling Clarett a bad guy, what a joke!

I hear you. I understand what you're saying about the NCAA and NFL. And while I don't necessarily agree with it and while I'm not quite as cynical about our colleges, I do understand the argument.

As for the bridges he burned, I was referring to the whistle-blowing and numerous accusations he made about OSU on his way out. The investigation is ongoing, so I won't speculate as to the truth of those accusations, but the point stands that the minute he decided to leave for the NFL early, he also started burning all of his bridges behind him. By coming out publicly and ripping OSU like he did, he ensured that he would not have a place to go back to if the court ruled against him. That, to me, is poor judgment.

And he is certainly no Ray Carruth or Ray Lewis (at least not yet), but I (and many other scouts and coaches) still have concerns with his character. Setting aside the character concerns, he still doesn't really strike me as a guy that has what it takes to be an NFL back. And if he did, he wouldn't be projected as a 5-7th rounder right now. Character concerns alone are only ever going to drop a guy one or two rounds at most, and usually less than that (see William Green, Fred Smoot).