Ukraine mega thread

We given 50B to Ukraine this year, and a lot of that was equipment and training. Not cash money.

It still cost us 50 billion dollars. Doesn't really matter what form the money turns into. Me personally, I don't think there are any good options dealing with a lunatic like Putin. But I'd rather it be our money than our soldiers. So I haven't been complaining about this. But I think you could make arguments against spending all of this money on Ukraine. In regards to Zelenskyy, he has been President since May 2019. Russia didn't invade until this year. I was talking about his presidency as a whole, not saying he has done a bad job in regards to Russia specifically.

Trump gave farmers 51.2 BILLION in 2020 even though the farmer net income increased 4% that year. Thats just vote buying.

I don't support this. I don't think the federal government should be subsidizing any private businesses/industries.

52 BILLION per year to stay in Afghanistan .. and yall wanted us to stay in afghanistan

I absolutely did not want us to stay in Afghanistan!!!!!!

My main point I was trying to make was, that even if I absolutely hated Zelenskyy and our handling of Ukraine, if I was in congress, I'd still go to this and stand the fuck up, then listen like an adult.

P.S.

- I am not anti-Ukraine
- I have always cared about the budget and deficits.

I’d say that it would probably cost more than $50 billion to not do anything. No matter what fighting for democracy is going to cost $.

I’d say that it would probably cost more than $50 billion to not do anything. No matter what fighting for democracy is going to cost $.

Very good point. Could definitely be the case. I don't envy Biden for having to deal with this situation.

Someone in Russia just needs to man/woman/non-binary the fuck up, and kill Putin.

Valid arguments to be made against the job Zelensky has done as a president?

We given 50B to Ukraine this year, and a lot of that was equipment and training. Not cash money.

Trump gave farmers 51.2 BILLION in 2020 even though the farmer net income increased 4% that year. Thats just vote buying.

52 BILLION per year to stay in Afghanistan .. and yall wanted us to stay in afghanistan

----

But yeah pearl clutch when an ally of ours is being killed and an entire country is being invaded

Go ahead and be anti ukraine since dems are pro ukraine

"but but but .. now we care about the budget and deficit .."

Shut the fuck up donny

https://media.tenor.com/E7eXzyeGChMAAAAM/seinfeld-stiller.gif

Supporting Ukraine is within the US interest as what has happened to Russia has almost certainly caused China to rethink any move against Taiwan. Plus, can anyone deny how effectively the Ukrainians have used that support?

I think the arguments against the support for Ukraine and or the attacks on Zelensky are based on either ignorance (not realizing how much it is in our interests to do so) or political tribalism or both. After our completely unnecessary surrender in Afghanistan (costs over the last few years were a fraction of that 52 billion you mentioned) it was predicted that our adversaries would get more aggressive. Heck I even said on this board that because of this Russia, China and Iran would make moves that would cost us a heck of a lot more than what we had recently been spending in Afghanistan (and boy was I right).

Very good point. Could definitely be the case. I don't envy Biden for having to deal with this situation.

Someone in Russia just needs to man/woman/non-binary the fuck up, and kill Putin.

killing Putin doesn't solve this. If anything, those who would have his job are more Stalin-esque than he is. The war in Ukraine is as much a fight for the successor to Putin as anything. That's why Wagner is determined to take Bakhmut so he has a victory to tout in Russia.

The only way to end this is for Ukraine to kick the Russian forces out and set up defensive borders. At that point Belarus will topple Lukashenko, and the RF will likely see it's internal borders as more of a concern.

Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov told French media on Wednesday that Russia had 500,000 troops ready for an attack to come in weeks. That number is far higher than the 300,000 newly enlisted soldiers Russian President Vladimir Putin called up this past autumn.

“Officially, they announced 300,000, but when we see the troops at the borders, according to our assessments it is much more,” Reznikov said.

And senior Ukrainian defense ministry official Yuriy Sak told NBC News Thursday that officials are worried Moscow’s military is preparing for a soon-to-come assault aimed at turning the war in the Kremlin’s favor.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3841230-ukraine-warns-russia-massing-500000-troops-on-border-for-offensive/

Russia has some military holiday on Feb 23rd .. expectation is major attack on Feb 24

Ukraine has to be tired and stretched thin

Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov told French media on Wednesday that Russia had 500,000 troops ready for an attack to come in weeks. That number is far higher than the 300,000 newly enlisted soldiers Russian President Vladimir Putin called up this past autumn.

“Officially, they announced 300,000, but when we see the troops at the borders, according to our assessments it is much more,” Reznikov said.

And senior Ukrainian defense ministry official Yuriy Sak told NBC News Thursday that officials are worried Moscow’s military is preparing for a soon-to-come assault aimed at turning the war in the Kremlin’s favor.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3841230-ukraine-warns-russia-massing-500000-troops-on-border-for-offensive/

Russia has some military holiday on Feb 23rd .. expectation is major attack on Feb 24

Ukraine has to be tired and stretched thin

Also read these are more trained and elite mechanized forces amassed at the front, not the cannon fodder from the last 6 months.

Also read these are more trained and elite mechanized forces amassed at the front, not the cannon fodder from the last 6 months.

They are not elite. They are mostly newer mobilized/recruited soldiers that received more training than the last iteration (who basically received none). Their elite forces (those that got years of training - ie VDV) were decimated last March-April. That said I'd expect these guys to do better than the last batch did over last summer and fall (They will be reinforced with the remnants of their regular professional forces as well).

Also read these are more trained and elite mechanized forces amassed at the front, not the cannon fodder from the last 6 months.

Don't believe that. Russia sent it's A team in last February. The military massed for this offensive might not be cannon fodder, but they aren't elite either. Expect Ukraine to bend but do a lot of killing as they bend back to pre-positioned defensive lines. Once this offensive ends, expect the Ukrainians trained with western tanks to retake any gains Russia makes, and push the borders back toward Crimea and deep into Luhansk.

Anyone in the DC area that wants to stand with Ukraine, there will be a rally this Saturday from 2pm - 5pm in front of the Lincoln Memorial. I wish that the
76 degree day was Saturday instead of Thursday, but I will be out there regardless. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpVnSYyXEAAuok3?format=jpg&name=medium

trump (chico's guy) at it Again!


https://news.yahoo.com/trump-defends-putin-biden-visits-014523554.html

Rolling Stone
Trump Defends Putin as Biden Visits War-Torn Ukraine


Donald Trump on Monday night touted his great relationship with Russian autocrat Vladimir Putin and defended his past assertion that he trusted the foreign leader over his own intelligence community.

“Putin never, ever would have gone into Ukraine if I were president,” Trump told supporters at a Florida rally. “I actually had a very good relationship” with Putin.

Trump in 2018 was asked whether he believed the intelligence community’s assessment that Russia had meddled in the 2016 election or Putin’s denial that he had. Trump equivocated and seemed to suggest he believed Putin. “I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today,” Trump said.

Trump’s praise of Putin comes as President Biden on Monday made a surprise visit to Ukraine, as first reported by Rolling Stone. Biden arrived in Kyiv in the early morning to meet with President Volodymyr Zelensky days before the anniversary of Russia’s invasion.