Ukraine mega thread

If true, these soldiers have Balls of Steel.

The Standoff at Belbek: Inside the First Clash of the Second Crimean War - Simon Shuster, TIME.com (http://time.com/12563/belbek-crimea-ukraine-russia/)

"After he decided Russian ultimatums to surrender were a bluff, Ukrainian base commander Yuli Mamchur played a mind game of his own by marching to a Russian-occupied airfield while carrying a Soviet flag in a gambit the Russian troops wouldn't open fire"

grasswire ‏@grasswire 48m
Russian forces have placed a minefield on the #Crimea border of #Ukraine . https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BiNPT9MCMAACx3B.jpg Photo by @EvgenyFeldman

Anyone know if Dailymail.UK is at all a legitimate news source?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2579168/Ukraine-warns-scale-invasion-Russia-moves-artillery-close-borders-Kiev-security-chief-says-Putins-troops-run-three-hours.html

Anyone know if Dailymail.UK is at all a legitimate news source?
Russian Army masses troops and missile launchers on Ukraine border | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2579168/Ukraine-warns-scale-invasion-Russia-moves-artillery-close-borders-Kiev-security-chief-says-Putins-troops-run-three-hours.html)

It's hardly the NY Times, but it's far from being the NY Post. I read the online version every day, mainly for the amusing stories.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/03/13/world/europe/russia-operations-map.html?_r=0

So, while I doubt Russia would really invade, at what point - if any - would you support use of US Force?

a) as soon as the tanks roll in
b) if tanks took over Kiev
c) if Russia held war games on the Polish border
d) never would support US forces there

Also, if you support any intervention, what's the most you would support?
a) drone surveillance
b) no fly zone over western Ukraine
c) no fly zone over all of Ukraine, UN or Nato force "peacekeepers" in Kiev
d) full protection assurances that Ukraine remains independent and sovereign

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/03/13/world/europe/russia-operations-map.html?_r=0

So, while I doubt Russia would really invade, at what point - if any - would you support use of US Force?

a) as soon as the tanks roll in
b) if tanks took over Kiev
c) if Russia held war games on the Polish border
d) never would support US forces there

Also, if you support any intervention, what's the most you would support?
a) drone surveillance
b) no fly zone over western Ukraine
c) no fly zone over all of Ukraine, UN or Nato force "peacekeepers" in Kiev
d) full protection assurances that Ukraine remains independent and sovereign

US answer:

e) moment US finds out American Corporations can get richer with US invasion.

you need a full plan. you can't send guys in without an end game, that's what makes a quagmire.

what's the exit plan if we go in? invade russia? bomb moscow? how far are they going to go? it's pointless to put in peacekeepers if they end up getting shot at, cause then you need to commit to a full ground war or pull them out, say "my bad" and let the country get steamrolled.

the best bet is to set up independent enegry (shale) and export it to undermine their economy, which is based on high price point oil. that takes away the most direct control they have over neighboring countries and makes it very difficult to keep people happy/services running/the military on a war footing.

a shooting war is the worst thing that could happen. surveillance and intelligence sharing is fine, making sure the ukranians have high end StA and AT weapons is a good precaution (as that's the cheapest way to destroy the highest $$ worth of their military), and using it as an excuse to set up missile defense and an air base in poland could be a useful chip in getting them to de-escalate (which can be tied to abandoning those projects).

also the russians have to put troops in kursk and belgorod, as if a war broke out, that's an easy and unobstructed 300 mile path straight to moscow. that's part of why they want the ukraine as a puppet state, this is all about putin's 1980's cold war strategic planning mindset... i guess. maybe he's gone full retard.

50,000 protest Crimea action in Moscow (http://www.rappler.com/world/regions/europe/53109-50,000-protest-crimea-action-in-moscow)


Russians protesting in Moscow. Lots of them.



Meanwhile, Russian forces are on the move in Ukraine.

Statement of the MFA of Ukraine with respect to assault landing of the Russian Armed Forces in the Kherson region on March 15 - News - MFA of Ukraine (http://mfa.gov.ua/en/press-center/news/19559-zajava-mzs-ukrajini-u-zvjazku-z-visadkoju-15-bereznya-desantu-zbrojnih-sil-rf-v-khersonsykij-oblasti)

I would be shocked if this doesn't end either with an east/west Ukraine or a Russian puppet state for the whole of Ukraine.