Another school Shooting Nevada

200 Utah educators take class on handling, having concealed gun in class - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/27/us/utah-teachers-weapons/index.html)



Anger over map of gun permit owners "Guns have no place in our schools. Period," Dennis Van Roekel and Randi Weingarten, the presidents of the two biggest U.S. teachers' unions, said in a joint statement. "We must do everything we can to reduce the possibility of any gunfire in schools, and concentrate on ways to keep all guns off school property and ensure the safety of children and school employees.

But to Clark Aposhian -- president of the Utah Shooting Sports Council, which ran Thursday's event in West Valley City -- it's a matter of giving teachers, school administrators, janitors and others the same rights, when licensed, to carry a concealed weapon in their place of work as others have.

"What we're talking about is not arming teachers," he said, contending that the approach of locking doors and hiding behind a desk "just isn't doing it anymore." "We're simply not taking away that ability of lawful self-defense within a school."

For 12 years, Utah educators have been able to do just that, even if only a small fraction do bring guns into their workplace. The state's concealed weapon law allows for a person to have, on his person or in a secure lockbox, a weapon inside a school, Aposhian said.

If they do have a loaded gun, their principals, school districts, and local police departments wouldn't even know, given the restrictions in place limiting who is told about who has a concealed weapons permit.

Are burglaries counted as violent crime? No. That makes your argument invalid.



Ah, the 'Pretentious Douche' school of rhetoric! Go milk a Unicorn.

p.s. I'm from the 'E Cartman' school, myself.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Once again, instead of engaging in reason, you engage in personal attack. As Matty indicated, such is the resort of those who have no argument.

Please bring a rational argument armed with data to the table or admit that you have no such argument.

Once again, instead of engaging in reason, you engage in personal attack.
Simply answer my question. Is burglary a violent crime?

If not, which we both agree it's not, why are you using a deliberately skewed measure to underwrite your argument?

Simply answer my question. Is burglary a violent crime?

If not, which we both agree it's not, why are you using a deliberately skewed measure to underwrite your argument?

Yes, I would argue that burglary is a violent crime. That is why I used it as an example. But I am happy to let you have your way and agree that it is not. No problem. You win that one.

So let's use your own example of assault from post 21 and paste it into my challenge:

Assault is less of a trauma than mass shootings of kids. But if you would like to argue that you would prefer to have masses of dead kids than assaults, go ahead. However, if you are not willing to make this argument, then you logically must recognize that reducing mass gun violence against kids is a priority and that the Australian solution responds to this.

So which is worse, assaults or bunches of dead kids?

If you say "dead kids," then you should support the Australian solution, because that is precisely what the Aussies stopped.

Yes, I would argue that burglary is a violent crime. That is why I used it as an example.

The legal definition would prove you wrong.

But I am happy to let you have your way and agree that it is not. No problem. You win that one.

So let's use your own example of assault from post 21 and paste it into my challenge:

So which is worse, assaults or bunches of dead kids?



Due to the rarity of 'bunches of dead kids' I'll go with 'assault', even though I'd compare it with rape for a more honest discussion.

The legal definition would prove you wrong.



Due to the rarity of 'bunches of dead kids' I'll go with 'assault', even though I'd compare it with rape for a more honest discussion.

Fine. You prefer dead kids over a potential marginal rise in assaults. I'm glad that I am not one of your kids.

Notice that the potential marginal rise in assault and rape does not have a clear correlation with the Aussie gun ban, as Matty indicated. But even if I grant that correlation, you still choose dead kids.

Most people would be horrified to make that choice, and the same goes with if we talked about rape. Assault and rape, which are deplorable, happen to individuals, usually adults. Also, in the case of Australia we are talking only about a marginal rise. Conversely, mass shootings, the subject of this thread, involve bunches of people, often kids. And the Aussies basically ended such events.

And if you think that shootings of multiple kids is a "rarity," as you say, I suggest that you read a newspaper. Or just read the title of the thread. It has happened multiple times this year and we are still only in October.

I'll never forget that you argued that more kids should die.

they actually reduced sky marshall presence on airplanes a long while ago, they were causing more issues than they were worth:
Federal Air Marshal Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal_Service)
Problems run rampant through Federal Air Marshal program: reportÂ* - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/problems-run-rampant-federal-air-marshal-program-report-article-1.1019199)
Air Marshals: Undercover and Under Arrest - ProPublica (http://www.propublica.org/article/air-marshals-undercover-and-under-arrest-1113)
Report on Federal Air Marshal Service paints an unflattering picture - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/03/travel/air-marshal-service-probe/)

so those people trying to protect us with their guns on planes are instead using their badges to smuggle cocaine and explosives (and child porn). that sure makes me feel safer!

nevermind

nevermind

Eventually the way I feel anytime I get sucked into one of these threads.

Richmond Times-Dispatch (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NAVY_BASE_SHOOTING?SITE=VARIT&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)