Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

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SBXVII
02-26-2013, 03:16 PM
He's correct. You may only seek damages for your own injuries. The Skins do not have standing to sue on behalf of the NFLPA or any players. Those parties stand on their own -- You can't sue me seeking to recover damages for injuries I might have done to your brother, only your brother has the right to sue me for those damages.

The NFLPA brought their action seeking remedies and lost. Fair and square and for sound legal reasons ("Oops, I didn't think it would mean that" is generally not seen a sound basis for allowing people to reopen lawsuits).




Just off the top of my head, I think anything doing with the collusion is bound to fail. The crux of the argument being it is a breach of contract to penalize the team for violating an agreement that was, at the time it existed, inherently illegal (i.e. the agreement to violate the "uncapped year" through collusion). I think, however, this fails b/c even, if they didn't completely comply with it, Snyder conspired to further it by failing to reveal it when it was in force.

As an example: A bunch of criminals agree not to sell their ill-gotten gains until the heat dies down. One, thinking he can get one-up the other criminals goes out and does just that. The others are miffed but don't dare do anything b/c it would lead the cops right to them. They all flee the country and, as soon as they cross the border, they beat up the rogue conspirator and take teh rest of his share away from him. The conspirator cannot sue for his share of the stolen goods back.



The argument that the contracts were approved by the League after the Skins followed the written rules of the league, I think probably holds water. I am betting that the Skins knew these contracts were objectionable and that they followed the procedural requirements for their approval by the League to a tee. Not an I undotted or a T uncrossed. In that case, the argument is that the League's penalty even though imposed in a procedurally correct fashion (as ruled by the arbiter) constituted a substantive violation of the owners' rules concerning contract approval.

The beauty of this second argument is that it leaves the collusion out of it - unless the NFL brings it up (i.e. Sure, we approved the contracts, but they knew, and were part of, a bad faith collusive agreement not to submit these contracts. If we had disapproved them, it would have shown us to be illegally colluding and damaged the negotiation process for everyone). In the end, the collusion comes out and everybody looks bad BUT, it forces the other owners to admit their bad faith and try to prove Snyder was part of it. If the Skins' lawyers thought it out this far, I am in awe of their subtle elegance.

It didn't take us long to come up with that. ;) more then likely they already have.

FRPLG
02-26-2013, 04:02 PM
The further and further we get away from the settlement, the more it looks like the owners schooled the NFLPA.

You want shorter practices? No 18 game schedules? Okay. We scrap the old anti-trust settlment entirely (i.e. no more Dotty), get Commissioner discipline and a 10 year deal.

All the while, NFL teams were spending less than their mandated floors and colluding not to start bidding wars in the "uncapped" year. AND, their bad faith collusion was so well hidden, that it was never (regardless of the BS Goodell is peddling now) discovered.

I admit I was not a fan of some of the player issues at the time (can't even remember all the issues now), but, damn, the owners played the whole thing to a tee. The only real issue they had a set back on was the treble damages relating to TV money rights - but ... oh wait! ... the NFLPA waived those also in order to get limited two-a-days.

Really, in retrospect, other than easier practices and a slightly more substantial offseason, what did the players gain out of this CBA?

Nothing...nothing at all. It was a decisive win for the owners at the time and like you said the smart people in the room (the owners) knew just how big a win it was. But lots of football players had car payments to make on their Bentley's so there you go.

CRedskinsRule
02-26-2013, 04:15 PM
Well one thing they did gain was lifetime healthcare through the NFL, Ross Tucker has said often that that was an important get from the negotiations.

SFREDSKIN
02-26-2013, 05:38 PM
Mixed views on strength of Redskins’ legal position in salary cap case (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/02/26/mixed-views-on-strength-of-redskins-legal-position-in-salary-cap-case/)

mbedner3420
02-26-2013, 05:53 PM
Mixed views on strength of Redskins’ legal position in salary cap case (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/02/26/mixed-views-on-strength-of-redskins-legal-position-in-salary-cap-case/)

Well that's a step up from the purely negative views from a few weeks ago...

CultBrennan59
02-26-2013, 08:36 PM
Wow. Things are starting to get fishy. And very interesting. Shocker, someone in a high end organization is lying.
NFLPA: We did not agree to 'collusion' in advance | CSN Washington (http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/nflpa-we-did-not-agree-collusion-advance)

Evilgrin
02-26-2013, 09:33 PM
It's looks bad when you cover yourself with lies.

JoeRedskin
02-26-2013, 09:37 PM
Mixed views on strength of Redskins’ legal position in salary cap case (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/02/26/mixed-views-on-strength-of-redskins-legal-position-in-salary-cap-case/)

What I think is interesting is that those saying the Skins will lose are basically saying they will lose b/c everyone has lost on the previous claims/lawsuits. They don't really cite any legal basis for the loss. On the other hand, those saying they may have an argument cite to a specific legal theory for how they may recover.

The stuff that has gone before really is tangential to the current potential claim. One involved the claims for redress by an entirely different party - the NFLPA. The other involved, essentially, a procedural administrative claim by the Skins that the NFL had not followed its own internal rules when levying the penalties. Neither dealt with the substantive claim for unfair dealing that Snyder is now contemplating against his business partners. (i.e. - you filled out the proper forms to levy the fines, but the underlying basis for the fines is invalid).

Also, the article says that the League and NFLPA must agree to restore the cap space. While that may be true, the Skins could seek and the judge could order equitable relief of another kind (extra draft picks for example) or levy such a monstrous fine on the NFL that would vanish if the cap space were restored. Alternatively, the Skins could seek assistance/testimony from the NFLPA saying, "yup, we agree to the restoration of the cap space if you order it judge." There's lots of creative ways to redress the wrong.

The more I think about it. The more I think that Snyder has a legit claim. It would air a LOT of dirty laundry and he may or may not succeed, but I am betting there is something actionable.

Even if he couldn't get an injuction, all it would have to do is survive a motion to dismiss and Mara, Goodell and others would be subject to depositions. Given the timing, those would likely be happening right around the opening of the new season.

I bet if they can put together a Complaint that appears to have some legal weight to it and shows they are willing to go the distance, owners will accomodate them. None of them will want to be deposed about their discussions and agreements during the lockout.

artmonkforhallofamein07
02-26-2013, 10:03 PM
Joe - I really appreciate your insight and expertise in the letter of the law in this thread and others.

I find this all very disgusting, and unfortunately keeping this 18mil penalty is really going to hurt us this year. Last year we got by, but this may really crush our roster and chance to repeat as Champs.

I have looked around and I am a pretty avid listener to national sports talk radio and I have yet to hear anyone who agrees with the way that the league has handled this situation or the penalties levied against either team.

SBXVII
02-26-2013, 10:28 PM
Wow. Things are starting to get fishy. And very interesting. Shocker, someone in a high end organization is lying.
NFLPA: We did not agree to 'collusion' in advance | CSN Washington (http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/nflpa-we-did-not-agree-collusion-advance)

Ha ha, yeah Goodell, thats why the NFLPA filed a law suit against the NFL cause they agreed to collude with the owners and allow the NFL to punish anyone who failed to go along with the program. lol.

Goodell you kill me. It would have been funnier had it been said on April 1st.

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