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Shane 03-04-2005, 04:38 AM Shane - I wouldn't be so sure we don't let the market drive our price. We need a CB and we may as well retain Smoot. Lucas got a big deal and he's not even as good as Smoot.
I think teams are most successful when they have a strong sense of their principles and their boundaries and are willing to risk being a little poorer in talent for awhile rather than to bend themselves out of shape and go against those principles for short term gain and, let's say, overpay for a free agent.
I like to see a team with a strong identity and a strong sense of togetherness, cooperation and collective aspiration. If you are bending yourself out of shape to sign free agents and if you are afraid to promote players from within and have faith in them and do the hard work of teaching them adequately, then you don't have a strong identity of what your team is about - you are always looking where the grass is greener somewhere else, at some sparkling free agent, etc.
You want players to want to come to you because you are so attractive to them, like Rabach or Patten, rather than you falling over yourself to sign someone out of fear you lack something.
The Atlanta Falcons signed someone last year I was reading, paying way over market price for Jason Webster, because they had cut everyone at that position and were desperate. That wasn't a great way to manage things. Then he got injured.
To be willing to promote from within really motivates all the players because they know they will get a chance if they play themselves into the role. Lemar Marshall no doubt sensed he would be given opportunity on this team and he played his heart out in place of Arrington, and now will be our starting middle linebacker.
We have players on our roster right now who could be super players at cornerback, or do a very good job. To re-sign Smoot is a good move at the right price because Smoot has earned that. But if it throws out our salary structure, to me it means we are prostrating ourselves out of fear and I don't think that helps us.
Redskins8588 03-04-2005, 04:50 AM What does this say about Smoot and his asking price if teams like Dallas and Carolina are passing him up? I mean Carolina gave Lucus(SP) almost a small mint and I dont think that he is as good as Smoot is. Even KC is supposed to look at Smoot, but from what I have ben reading you can tell that they really want Rolle.
One would think that after seening your peers get these offers and your name not even mentioned it might motivate you to go back to your orginal team and show everyone that they f*cked up by not getting you!!
With that being said I hope that Smoot comes back!!!
huntz 03-04-2005, 05:25 AM Hate to see Antonio leave. Liked him from the start. But Marshall has shown he can play and who says Barrow can't come back to be the man this year he was supposed to be last season? 'Skins are deep at LB, and might be deeper if they draft one next month.
That Guy 03-04-2005, 06:14 AM gotta agree with shane on this one... and i think many of us saw marshal's chance coming in the last couple days. That said, let's get smoot back and draft williams, so i can consider this a great offseason (well, great after watching a preseason game and seeing what a beasst marshall will be at MLB :P)
honestly pierce's statement made it sound like he rather make a name for himself and he did want the money or a chance to emerge as a star instead of a guy who filled in between arrington and washington... before free agency he said the offer would have to blow him away, but apparently our best offer was pretty close, so i wish him the best (he did give us a chance to match, and that's really all you can ask for), but i don't really feel that bad about loing him right now... (if marshall gets injured or plays poorly i might change my mind though).
BrudLee 03-04-2005, 08:24 AM pierce was 242lbs marshall is 228lbs.... and not known for being a heavy hitter... weeel see
pierce being undersized means marshall has alot to overcome
Since Marshall handled himself well in place of Lavar (253 lbs.), we should give him a chance.
joecrisp 03-04-2005, 09:18 AM Shane makes some excellent points. Gibbs is showing he has a much better understanding of the salary cap this offseason, and he is protecting the team's long-term interests in regard to the salary cap projections for the next 3 years or so.
Apparently, the Skins' offer to Pierce was very close to what the Giants offered him, with the primary difference being that the Redskins' offer contained smaller salary numbers over the first two years of the contract. Obviously, those first two years are critical, in that the Skins need cap room for this offseason to sign other players and possibly move Coles, while also needing to minimize the cap impact in 2006, which is slated to be a harsh cap year for the Skins.
The Giants had the edge in that they were willing to give Pierce just enough money in the first two years to make it hard for the Skins to match. Gibbs made the tough decision, but it was the right decision. Pierce will be missed, but not so much that it would have been worth exacerbating the team's tenuous salary cap situation over the next two years to keep him.
The same principle holds true for Smoot, and any other player that wants more money than the team can reasonably afford to pay within the parameters of their salary cap projections.
Give Gibbs some credit for finally bringing some sensibility to this team's free agency strategy.
FRPLG 03-04-2005, 09:20 AM There are few people who would say Lucas is a better corner than Smoot and even fewer who would say Henry is. Both guy git big deals. The Skins offering $10,000,000 as a SB is UNDERPAYING him based on the market. Guess what guys...everything is driven by the market. It seems silly to me to say we should go with less talent just so we can stand on principle or something. What freaking principle? The principle that we think we know how much a CB should cost and we won't pay enough to keep a quality one? That seems remarkably arrogant and doomed to failure. Corner is the highest paid position in the league for a reason. It is the HARDEST position to play and the difference between a good CB and an average CB is tremendous for a defense. We are going to lose a guy simply because we are being hard headed about what we offer him. There IS A WAY to get this done that is suitable for everyone. If there wasn't then the rhetoric from Redskins park would be more to the effect that they just can't afford the guy much like they did with Pierce. They decided he wasn't worth the money the Giants we're going to pay him. If the Skins don't think Smoot is worth what he is seeking then they need to look no further than the recent CB deals to show them they are wrong. Unless of course they think Lucas and Henry are better CBs. In that case then it is reasonable to pay Smoot less in their mind. Otherwise up the ante or get of the game for Smoot. Additinally I haven't seen anywhere that teams are passing Smoot up. He just started taking visits yesterday and both Dallas and Carolina were so in need of a CB that they jumped in early to avoid missing the boat on CBs and over paying even more once a huge market is set. Time to wise up at Redskins park and make a decision whether they really are going to try and resign quality players before our team is a shell next year.
Schneed10 03-04-2005, 09:26 AM Shane, brilliant post. I'm not going to quote it because it was long as hell, but it was well worth reading. Promoting players from within does several things:
1) As Shane said, motivates players to play hard in hopes of one day becoming a starter and earning more cash.
2) Motivates players by providing them the feeling that when they do get promoted, they've earned the respect of the coaching staff and they're teammates.
3) Fosters trust between the players and the coaching staff. They know that if they play hard, they'll be given a fair shot.
4) And when you pay free agents a ton of money, and you don't give your own guys a chance to earn their keep, you create a divide in the locker room. The guys who have paid their dues as Redskins will get jealous of the guys who just came in and got big money.
And after Gregg Williams hit on all of his personnel moves last year, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he thinks Marshall can start and play well, then I believe him.
And besides, Williams turned straw into gold last year on defense. I say let him try to do it again, and spend the money upgrading the offense.
FRPLG 03-04-2005, 09:26 AM Give Gibbs some credit for finally bringing some sensibility to this team's free agency strategy.
This team was built to win now! But basically we're going into rebuild mode by letting the quality players leave. We are going to have LESS TALENT next year returning from a team that was 6-10! Does this sound like a good plan? It is not unless we admit they're simply going to start to jetison anyone who cost any money. This is so frustrating. We had two guys who WERE ANCHORS on our defense which basically won us 6 games last year. We have lost one because we decided we couldn't afford him and now we'll lose another because we are too stubborn to simply pay him what he is worth.
FRPLG 03-04-2005, 09:32 AM I agree with Shane in terms of signing Free Agents but when it comes to your own players it seems like it might also be motivational for players to know that their team values them and wants to reward them with a fair market deal rather than low balling them hoping they'll take the financial hit just to stay in the same place. Doing otherwise simply fosters dicontinuity since every player plays his 3 or 4 year contract and then leaves for greener pastures when the Skins low ball 'em. Our fundamental personnel issue has been that we sign too many outside free agents while never teaching and promoting from within. Finally we have a chance to turn that course and we go in a totally wrong direction. I hope I am wrong and we can find quality guys to replace Smoot and Pierce but it is a big gamble to simply assume we can when we know they were quality players for us.
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