Trayvon Martin Case

One of the comments from a article about the trial.


The reason the defense is only going to take half the time is because the prosecution did half the work for them.


Reading the stuff Joe has said up here, I think that guy's comment hit the nail on the head.

As an aside, today I was assigned my third tort defense case of the year involving a teenager crossing a major highway at a non-intersection and being struck and killed. Their ages were 14, 16 and the most recent a 17 year old homecoming queen. Each was tragic, each involved bad decision making by several people and each was avoidable by the teen. In each case, criminal charges against the driver were considered and rejected. In the case of the 14 year old, the driver was prosecuted for a DUI and spent 3 months in prison but was not charged with manslaughter b/c the police believed the accident to be unavoidable i.e. even had he not been intoxicated he would have hit the child.

Martin's death was a tragedy, people want someone to blame. Is Zimmerman civilly liable? Maybe. A wrongful death claim will be filed (just as it was in OJ). In that case, Zimmerman will bear the burden of proving self-defense by a preponderance of the evidence.

I only bring this out to demonstrate that death and tragedy happen. Often. Too often. Not all result in show trials. You think the mother of the 14 year-old killed by a drunk driver had no problem being told "Sorry ma'am, we know your son was killed by a drunk driver but, unfortunately, it was your son's own fault"? I guarrantee you she did.

Here, the question is do we know enough to imprison an person. As society, we have said that, regardless of the tragic results, we will not compound tragedies by acting out of vengance. Instead, and in order to temper our need for vengance, we have a system that is designed (although it does not always work that way) such that we will allow 99 guilty men to go free rather than subject one innocent man to imprisonment. It often leads to deeply unsatisfying results but it is, to me, the right way for a society to mete out punishment. Otherwise, mob rule, lynchings and vigalantism will become the substitute for "justice".

Further, there is recourse for those harmed by others, we as a society may not punish a suspected criminal but they can be sued by the person they have wronged. Often such suits are pointless b/c the suspected criminal has no assets, but, in a case such as this, there is the opportunity for real recourse through civil action.

Sorry for the rambling. A beautiful young woman was killed b/c several people (including her) made bad decisions. It simply saddens me and gets me all philosophical.

Hug your kids everyday. At least twice.

Is Martin civilly liable? Maybe. A wrongful death claim will be filed (just as it was in OJ). In that case, Martin will bear the burden of proving self-defense by a preponderance of the evidence.


You meant Zimmerman, JR?

^^ Yes. Thanks. Will edit for correction.

Wrong, wrong, wrong wroooong. Wrong wrong wrong wrooooong. [Y'all know the clip].

I already covered this once, so let's review:



So, to be sure, I looked it up. As I assumed, Florida law is essentially the same:

"In a criminal prosecution the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt never shifts from the State and, as a result, when self-defense is properly at issue, the state effectively has the burden to prove that defendant was not acting in self-defense during the commission of the criminal act."



Again, ignoring your assumptions of facts not proven and your speculative characterizations ...

ZIMMERMAN DOES NOT HAVE TO PROVE HE ACTED IN SELF-DEFENSE. THE STATE MUST PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT THAT HE DID NOT . Innocent until proven guilty - beyond a reasonable doubt. Lordy, how many times do I have to restate this simple, fundamental principal of our legal system.

By the way, and to preempt any silly assertions that "Well, GZ's self-defense isn't 'properly at issue' because he hasn't proved it" remark from saden or someone else - if the State thought that a prima facia claim of self-defense claim wasn't generated by the evidence, they would have brought a murder 1 charge against GZ. By bringing the murder 2 charge instead, the State acknowledges that the evidence has generated a self-defense claim but they assert it was not valid. As such, they must now prove its invalidity BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.

Sorry for "yelling" but the wilfull ignorance being exhibited in this thread is getting me testy.



Again, you're assertion that GZ "create[d] a situation" glosses over the key issues of the case that are in dispute. Further, the claim of self-defense is not "peripheral" - what an idiotic statement. It is central to the events of that evening and sufficiently in dispute so as to be acknowledged by the State's indictment.

All you are doing is restating your initial bias and speculation and throwing in an extra helping of ignorance ... but, hey, that's sounds like an excellent basis to put people in jail.


Prove might have been the wrong word to use, perhaps show would be more appropriate. I am saying a self-defense claim is an extraordinary claim and as such there is a greater burden on the defense than in a typical criminal trial. The prosecutor has 5 angles of attack that the defense must show there is a reasonable cause to doubt each point of attack.

As for murder 1 we don't need to go there because it doesn't apply in this case.

Can I get in on the action?

Same as above, except for $50.

Done!

What a beat-down!

May I suggest, saden1, you quit while you're behind? You're looking more and more like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.

This is almost as much fun as the actual trial.


It's hot as hell outside and my balls are sweaty.

It's hot as hell outside and my balls are sweaty.

Fresh Balls, it's a great product:

http://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFh7Q1octxZBng70rsSNWK_kKhXuOwG JypsemtuQMvFALvX_do
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Not sure why they have to say it's for men on the packaging......

What a beat-down!

May I suggest, saden1, you quit while you're behind? You're looking more and more like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.

This is almost as much fun as the actual trial.
The Black Night Fight -Monty Python And The Holy Grail - YouTube

Things that make you go "Hmmmmm" (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2359517/Documents-Little-known-Justice-Department-unit-provided-support-protest-deployment-Florida-initial-Trayvon-Martin-unrest.html#ixzz2YfEg0ph2):

Documents published online Wednesday by a conservative watchdog group show that the Community Relations Service, an arm of the U.S. Justice Department, spent taxpayer dollars to help organize and implement plans for the initial string of rallies in Sanford, Florida following the 2012 shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

The protests were openly hostile to George Zimmerman, the volunteer neighborhood watch organizer who killed Martin, 17, after a struggle. Zimmerman is currently on trial in a Florida courtroom, charged with second-degree murder.

Its mandate includes 'assist[ing] State and local units of government, private and public organizations, and community groups with preventing and resolving racial and ethnic tensions, incidents, and civil disorders, and in restoring racial stability and harmony.'

Some of the Trayvon Martin protests, however, stoked racial animosity, with Black Panther Party members and the Rev. Al Sharpton suggesting that Zimmerman, a Latino man, was an example of white-on-black violence.

'These documents detail the extraordinary intervention by the Justice Department in the pressure campaign leading to the prosecution of George Zimmerman,' said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton.

'My guess is that most Americans would rightly object to taxpayers paying government employees to help organize racially-charged demonstrations.'

Obama: 'If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon'

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