Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan [Archive] - Page 82

30gut

03-21-2012, 12:31 AM

We know what Gaffney and Moss provides, but it isn't much anyway...Expecting a "second wind" from a WR nearing 33 years of age is a course of action that will lead to disappointment......it is not unreasonable to expect him to play at a higher level than he did last year and be better than Brown.
I feel like we're going in circles now where you devalue Moss and Gaffney's actual production while talking up heretofore unseen production from a UDFA rooke RT and a drastically underperforming and injured RT.
My point is simple net-net Gaffney and Moss are better WRs then Willie Smith and Jammal Brown are RTs.
I don't see how anyone can say they know what Gaffney and Moss provide and say its not much when compared against the level of play at the RT position.

2011
Jabar Gaffney 68 catches 947 yards 5 tds
Pierre Garcon 70 catches 947 yards 6 tds
Santana Moss 48 catches 548 yards 4 tds (missed 4 games with a broken hand)
Moss's 2010 season (then one where he didn't break his hand like this year) 93 catches(top 10), 1,115 yards(top 10) 6 tds

I would like a little clarification as to what specific points are you trying to establish with the use of the stat of DYAR and DVOA. As in what is this stat supposed to tell me specifically.
I understand your point here but I'm not using FBO to predict anything.
I posted the their stats as a reference.
And of course FBO metric has limitation every stat does but the limits you address apply to Garcon and Morgan just like the apply for Moss and GaffneyThe stats are for reference.
For example when you say that Moss/Gaffney don't provide much you can look refer to the stats and see there actual production numbers.

I believe there is no conclusive way to use DYAR as a solid estimator for the how good a reciever isMe too.
...So now we're back to talking physical impact after leaving the lovely ivory tower of blind statisical inferences?Actually the only one making blind statistical inferences is you.
I posted the stats you made assumptions and inferences based on the stats.

Football Outsiders ranks our passing offense:22th
Jabbar Gaffney ranks 33rd in DYAR and 48th in DVOA which is actually ahead of newly signed P.Garcon 81st and 78th respectively.
Interestingly enough the injured S.Moss DYAR/DVOA 80th DYAR/79th DVOA, rival Garcon.
I'd like a RT too, but we are not in a position to sit back and relax at the state of our WR corps either, especially two years from now, when Gaffney cross that threshold into the realm of unproductiveness(33 years of age) and we only have Leonard Hankerson's game against Miami to say it's not a problem.Who said anything about sitting back and relaxing about our WR corps? I surely did not:I would have been just as happy with Early Doucet or Harry Douglas and saved some of that 21 mil/42mil/5

So again, simply put I think addressing the RT position this offseason with a proven quality starter provides greater benefit to our rookie QB then adding a couple of 2nd tier WRs with upside.
Or as i've stated previously:
Did the signing of Garcon and Morgan improve the WR corps? Yes.
But, again for me I think RT more so they any other position on offense was the weakest link on our starting 11.
I'm an oldschool type guy and I think physical superiority at the point of attack is the single most successful way to improve an offense.
I think finding a definitive upgrade at the RT position, more then any else, would be the most beneficial to support a rookie QB.
If people expect a Cam Newtonesque season from Griffin people shouldn't overlook the quality of Newton's OL.


	Commanders Post at The Warpath > Commanders Football > Locker Room Main Forum > Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan PDA Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 [82] 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 EARTHQUAKE2689 03-21-2012, 12:00 AM Jarvis will be good. SirClintonPortis 03-21-2012, 12:03 AM Hankerson 1,150 yards 7 TDs Garcon 800 yards 5 TDs Morgan 600 yards 3 TDs Davis 700 yards 5 TDs Hankerson going over 1000 yards is...not likely. Dude always takes his time before you go "WOW!" and his recovery from his injury had a late start because they delayed the surgery, hoping that they wouldn't have to perform the surgery. Maybe next year. Garçon has a better shot at 1000 yards if he indeed takes over for Moss. skinsfaninok 03-21-2012, 12:07 AM Gaffney: Another team Cooley: 500 or so, I'm being too nice on Hankerson, I just think he is going to be that guy but non homerism: Hankerson 900 yards 7 TDs Davis 800 4 TDs Garcon 700 yards 5 TDs Cooley 450 yards 3 TDs Morgan 400 2 TDs everyone else: 450 yards 2 TDs We did throw for nearly 4k with the garbage of QBs this year. switch garcon and hank 30gut 03-21-2012, 12:31 AM We know what Gaffney and Moss provides, but it isn't much anyway...Expecting a "second wind" from a WR nearing 33 years of age is a course of action that will lead to disappointment......it is not unreasonable to expect him to play at a higher level than he did last year and be better than Brown. I feel like we're going in circles now where you devalue Moss and Gaffney's actual production while talking up heretofore unseen production from a UDFA rooke RT and a drastically underperforming and injured RT. My point is simple net-net Gaffney and Moss are better WRs then Willie Smith and Jammal Brown are RTs. I don't see how anyone can say they know what Gaffney and Moss provide and say its not much when compared against the level of play at the RT position. 2011 Jabar Gaffney 68 catches 947 yards 5 tds Pierre Garcon 70 catches 947 yards 6 tds Santana Moss 48 catches 548 yards 4 tds (missed 4 games with a broken hand) Moss's 2010 season (then one where he didn't break his hand like this year) 93 catches(top 10), 1,115 yards(top 10) 6 tds I would like a little clarification as to what specific points are you trying to establish with the use of the stat of DYAR and DVOA. As in what is this stat supposed to tell me specifically. I understand your point here but I'm not using FBO to predict anything. I posted the their stats as a reference. And of course FBO metric has limitation every stat does but the limits you address apply to Garcon and Morgan just like the apply for Moss and GaffneyThe stats are for reference. For example when you say that Moss/Gaffney don't provide much you can look refer to the stats and see there actual production numbers. I believe there is no conclusive way to use DYAR as a solid estimator for the how good a reciever isMe too. ...So now we're back to talking physical impact after leaving the lovely ivory tower of blind statisical inferences?Actually the only one making blind statistical inferences is you. I posted the stats you made assumptions and inferences based on the stats. Football Outsiders ranks our passing offense:22th Jabbar Gaffney ranks 33rd in DYAR and 48th in DVOA which is actually ahead of newly signed P.Garcon 81st and 78th respectively. Interestingly enough the injured S.Moss DYAR/DVOA 80th DYAR/79th DVOA, rival Garcon. I'd like a RT too, but we are not in a position to sit back and relax at the state of our WR corps either, especially two years from now, when Gaffney cross that threshold into the realm of unproductiveness(33 years of age) and we only have Leonard Hankerson's game against Miami to say it's not a problem.Who said anything about sitting back and relaxing about our WR corps? I surely did not:I would have been just as happy with Early Doucet or Harry Douglas and saved some of that 21 mil/42mil/5 So again, simply put I think addressing the RT position this offseason with a proven quality starter provides greater benefit to our rookie QB then adding a couple of 2nd tier WRs with upside. Or as i've stated previously: Did the signing of Garcon and Morgan improve the WR corps? Yes. But, again for me I think RT more so they any other position on offense was the weakest link on our starting 11. I'm an oldschool type guy and I think physical superiority at the point of attack is the single most successful way to improve an offense. I think finding a definitive upgrade at the RT position, more then any else, would be the most beneficial to support a rookie QB. If people expect a Cam Newtonesque season from Griffin people shouldn't overlook the quality of Newton's OL. EARTHQUAKE2689 03-21-2012, 12:35 AM switch garcon and hank I'll keep it this way for now. los panda 03-21-2012, 12:43 AM I feel like... ...stated previously:how long did that take? 30gut 03-21-2012, 12:58 AM I'll play too: Garcon 1,000 Davis 800 Moss 700 Morgan 600 Gaffney 500 Hankerson 200 Helu 400 DynamiteRave 03-21-2012, 01:04 AM I'll play too: Garcon 1,000 Davis 800 Moss 700 Morgan 600 Gaffney 500 Hankerson 200 Helu 400 Ouch. Interesting you add Moss though since I think almost everyone has written him off as a goner. EARTHQUAKE2689 03-21-2012, 01:06 AM That's 4k plus and ouch on Hank, I think Moss's age is what hurts him. skinsfaninok 03-21-2012, 01:07 AM Ouch. Interesting you add Moss though since I think almost everyone has written him off as a goner. Well that's w royal but now I see moss staying