Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

And Holmgren and Shanahan were on the Niners staff together so who's to say they won't work out a deal?

I may just be preaching to the choir, but if anyone out there is of the mind-set that RG3 should be uttered in the same breathe as Luck, or believes he's a sure-fire prospect, I would like to hear the reasoning why.This topic could fill an entire thread of its own.
But without being long-winded and getting into a specific breakdown of each of their skillsets.
In sum: for me when I try to separate the QB from the scheme and surrounding talent, Griffin would grade out higher in more areas then Luck.

Griffin's superlatives are innate and I personally place more value on a QBs innate abilities then coaching/scheme derived abilities.
And imo many of Luck perceived superlatives are coachable.
I believe that most prospects have the best coaching of their lives ahead of them.
But Luck as a product of outstanding QB coaching/system (Harbaugh)+his own above average talent is closer to reaching his potential then Griffin.

BTW-welcome to the forum

Cleveland could throw in next year's first. That still puts us a first round pick behind them. I don't buy that Fisher makes the deal because him and Shanny are boys. I'd park RGIII in the AFC and take Cleveland for all they got;)

Well, if that's the case then we as Redskin fans better hope that Mike Holmgren is sold on Colt McCoy and he's trying to aid him in getting him weapons at receiver. Despite McCoy's on field struggles, he's still a very young quarterback and if the Browns gave up on him after only two seasons would be unfortunate. Even though they can outbid us for RG3, they very well may not. The Browns troubles on offense wasn't only with the quarterback. The running game, the receivers had struggled so everything doesn't fall on McCoy. For them to draft Robert Griffin III will not do anything for their offense. They must build around the QB they have already. In addition, Holmgren already stated that competition would be brought in for McCoy this offseason. That would mean that the don't attend to draft a QB high, but maybe draft Weeden, Foles or some other rookie QB or maybe sign a veteran QB through free agency to compete with McCoy to help improve his game.


So maybe, just maybe, RG3 will fall to the sixth pick.

Me... I'd prefer to trade back for more picks which means more players which means more chances on hitting good players. Getting younger and faster and healthier at all positions is key. If RGIII falls to number 6 then I'm in for taking him but I'm not for mortgaging the teams future for one player. He's not the only player to come out of the draft with similar skill sets ie; Newton last year. Next year it will probably be the LSU kid who decided to stay in college.

Very well stated SBXVII! I don't want a PM with a fused neck and a noodle arm. I don't want to trade up either. The poll is skewed. It does not allow for us to trade back like we did for Kerrigan, and net more picks. It also assumes that we would have to trade up for RGIII or Luck. There are no givens, but there are general trends. Any mock over on HailRedskins.com can tell you approximately where a player may be taken. Some mocks actually have multiple rounds or the entire draft.

This topic could fill an entire thread of its own.
But without being long-winded and getting into a specific breakdown of each of their skillsets.
In sum: for me when I try to separate the QB from the scheme and surrounding talent, Griffin would grade out higher in more areas then Luck.
I agree with this, however doesn't Cam newton grade out higher in more areas than Manning in his prime? To be accurate I believe you would have to grade each aspect of their games on a scale, and then add the grades up to see who has a higher score.


Griffin's superlatives are innate and I personally place more value on a QBs innate abilities then coaching/scheme derived abilities.
And imo many of Luck perceived superlatives are coachable.
I believe that most prospects have the best coaching of their lives ahead of them.
But Luck as a product of outstanding QB coaching/system (Harbaugh)+his own above average talent is closer to reaching his potential then Griffin.
Fair enough, thanks for offering your opinion.


BTW-welcome to the forum

Appreciate it, everyone around here has been very welcoming and the wealth of football knowledge that can be learned on this website is fully on display.

No, those numbers represent a consistent decline, with one outlier year. Because they aren't huge doesn't mean they are not happening. He has been slowly declining thru his 30s, which is hardly shocking.

Those declines you're observing are not only not huge, they're statistically insignificant.

And one outlier year? Now you're just ignoring pertinent facts. You glossed over the opportunity cost of acquiring RGIII, expressing preference for evaluating the moves in a vacuum. And now you're glossing over the injury Manning had that season.

If Peyton Manning wants to physically decline like John Elway did after age 35, sure would be fine by me. I wouldn't mind seeing him decline his way into two Super Bowls like Elway did.

I agree with this, however doesn't Cam newton grade out higher in more areas than Manning in his prime? To be accurate I believe you would have to grade each aspect of their games on a scale, and then add the grades up to see who has a higher score.When Peyton was a QB prospect I didn't follow QB play closely enough to render an opinion.
But, Cam does grade out very high for me higher then both Griffin and Luck.
I agree about the scale, but don't you rememeber? That's how we did it last year.
The closer look series of threads that ended with group eval/rankings.

Oh, btw I'm DG on extremeskins.

Probably already answered but I think you have to actually "watch" the team to determine their situation. What I mean is Luck was probably asked to sit in the pocket and deliver the ball but was flushed due to a mediocre OL and yes he would have a lot of yardage because of this. RGIII probably had a whole offense designed around him where if he doesn't see anything down field with in a few seconds he would just take off and run. As an example I'd say a young Vick vs. a young anyone else with a bad OL. lol.

Mediocore?!? Their OLine has 2 potential first rounders this year at LT and RG in Martin and DeCastro, and supposedly their RT, C, and LG (who are experienced juniors and sophmores) are projected to go high, even as high as DeCastro and Martin.

One knock on Luck is that he was good because he had a Great OL.

When Peyton was a QB prospect I didn't follow QB play closely enough to render an opinion.
But, Cam does grade out very high for me higher then both Griffin and Luck.
I agree about the scale, but don't you rememeber? That's how we did it last year.
The closer look series of threads that ended with group eval/rankings.
Ya I remember them for sure, one of the few worth-while threads on ES. I was thinking about doing one with Tannehill, his NW cut-up is online, but I haven't found any others.

Oh, btw I'm DG on extremeskins.
I had a feeling.

Those declines you're observing are not only not huge, they're statistically insignificant.

And one outlier year? Now you're just ignoring pertinent facts. You glossed over the opportunity cost of acquiring RGIII, expressing preference for evaluating the moves in a vacuum. And now you're glossing over the injury Manning had that season.

If Peyton Manning wants to physically decline like John Elway did after age 35, sure would be fine by me. I wouldn't mind seeing him decline his way into two Super Bowls like Elway did.

Wow. You're not even trying anymore.

Not much point in continuing this. Have a good one.