Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

Why would Peyton Manning want to play for the Redskins? - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/why-would-peyton-manning-want-to-play-for-the-redskins/2012/02/10/gIQAeZxP4Q_blog.html)

And then a great article by Wise.

I don't assume that. I DO assume he would be a significant upgrade from what we currently have AND that upgrade would come without giving up draft picks. If he's totally cleared medically to play, I would absolutely bet on him being significantly better than what we currently at QB. Manning from the past? Probably not. I just know that he'd be better than Flynn, Orton or whoever else we can pick up in FA.

NOW, if RGIII falls to us, that's who I want.

I was just answering your question of why I didn't think there was any reason to expect to see Manning's old numbers in DC.

Good read here by Sally Jenkins on Peyton.
Peyton Manning: Washington Redskins should get him as soon as he’s available - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/peyton-manning-washington-redskins-should-get-him-as-soon-as-hes-available/2012/02/08/gIQAg0nRzQ_story_1.html)

I don't consider that a good read at all, frankly. And not just because I disagree with her. There are multiple posters in this thread who I couldn't disagree with more who've put together much more salient arguments than she did.

I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

Totally agree with your last paragraph

As for ESPN's TQBR, they did spend several years working on it before releasing it and you can see here that Manning is at the top in 2008 and 2009

NFL -- Peyton Manning has top two QBR seasons - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6834507/nfl-peyton-manning-top-two-qbr-seasons)

And welcome to the board...I hear you've been talking about us over on other boards :)

Manning is clearly on the down side of his carreer. With a neck fusion he is affected for life with limited mobility in his neck area. He was never a drop back passer with Indy most of his time was spent in shotgun (he would step up to make calls but would settle into shotgun formation). If he were to come to the skins he would need the offense taylored to his liking.

The Shanahans currently have no audibles, no two minute offense, and micromanage all aspects of the offense, not sure if that was due to lack of confidence in Grossman/Beck or just their MO. However that would all have to be changed for Manning. Not sure if they are willing to do that for a player with a deficiancy, on the down side of his carreer that doesn't fit the system.

RGIII is young and is probably more coachable that most of the qbs that have been here since the Shannys came in. Also, RGII is more than capable of learning how the drop back in a pro style offense, if he hasn't already learned, all prospects have private coaching proir to the combine.

Barkley please don't go there, when was the last time a USC qb came out that actually had a quality carreer?

An 85 passer rating is basically what Campbell was doing here.

Anything Campbell did for the good was done in garbage time after the game was essentially over.

Totally agree with your last paragraph

As for ESPN's TQBR, they did spend several years working on it before releasing it and you can see here that Manning is at the top in 2008 and 2009


Wow, didn't know they did that, no surprise about Manning though.

And welcome to the board...I hear you've been talking about us over on other boards :)
Hah, I sure was, I think I quoted a post of yours specifically. Seems like a lot more valuable information to be found here, with much less filtering, so I figured I might as well just join up.

It's not as simple as asking to choose between RGIII and Peyton. The real question is which package would you rather have?


Which would you choose?


Package A:

1) RGIII


Package B:
1) Peyton Manning (while using 3rd rounder to draft Kirk Cousins)
2) Reily Reiff -OT (1st)
3) Alfonso Denard-CB (2nd)
4) Lucas Nix -OG (4th)

5) Manti Te'o - ILB (2013 1st)
6) Orhian Johnson -SS (2013 4th)

This is not an acccurate assesment of what is needed to get RGIII. If RGIII is picked by the skins they could still have their remaining picks this year under one scenario.
1) RGIII
2)2012 2nd rounder
3)2012 3rd rounder
4)2012 4th rounder
5)2012 5th rounder
6)2012 6th rounder
Would all still be available for the skins

They would probably have to surrender the 2012 1st, 2013 1st, and possibly Orakpo to make this happen, But in no way would they have to surrender the whole 2012 draft to get RGIII, that is ridiculous. No one is considering that Orakpo has possibly peaked and is very tradable at this point. Jeff Fisher would probably see this deal as 3 first rounders for the no.2 pick this year. Very doable.

I get the excitement of the draft, I do, but why waste your time putting this stuff together? I mean really, not on 2012 projections but 2013 as well. SMH

I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

Football Outsiders' stats show the exact same trend line for Manning as Passer Rating- consistently moving downwarrd, with a bit fo an uptick in 09.