What is RG3 worth to us?

pittsburg drafted holmes in the 1st and gave him away for a 5th. how did jeff george work out? bad picks are bad picks whether they're in the draft or FA, so let's be careful about the drafting is the only option routine. detriot? really? the team that went 0-16 and will get bounced from th playoffs in 2 games with about 42 top 5 picks... that's the example? how'd joey harrington work out btw?

the saints built through the draft? you mean like when they signed drew brees as a FA and finally ended about 432 years of losing?

new england signs FAs/trades pretty consistently. moss, dillon, ocho, welker, branch, etc etc.

the other three do draft well and are mainly comprised of picks.

but this last year we signed otagwe, wilson, cofield, bowen to big deals and tons of smaller deals (gaffney etc - FAR more than your 2 FA limit), and guess what? they worked out (otagwe is a meh).

we need 4 players - OL, QB, CB, WR and we have 2 picks where we might be able to expect help this year, so at least 2 are going to be FA signings if we want some re-assurance they'll be filled.

QB and CB are the most expensive in FA cause there just isn't much there (flynn, grimes, rogers and that's almost it). I wouldn't mind signing any of those guys and/or a WR and/or grubbs... that's 0-4, but I'd say we need at least 2 and our picks to be competitive next year (and no i don't think we should expect to wait 3 more years for the playoffs).

this isn't cerrato handing out stupid contracts to bad players, so let's get over that. haynesworth and archuleta, lloyd, hall, etc were regarded as mistakes WHEN THEY WERE SIGNED. It was bad FO evaluation and the fans don't have any control over that.

All these teams build through the draft with all their all pro players. All these teams except for New Orleans and Houston, have drafted their QB's.

I know its an annoying cliche, but it is a QB driven league, and you going to find your franchise QB 95% of the time in the draft.

And you go on about how these teams have gotten free agents that have been good or have been busts; You Clearly Didn't Read my original post. All teams get FA's, at sometime or all the time, but the good teams build through the draft. Steelers build through the draft and their in the playoffs every year. Green Bay;do I need to go on?

This also goes back to winning. We didn't win with the old regime and their FA habits. We currently aren't winning that well with this regime. Sure they are showing promise, but in this league, everyones professional and you are expected to win and improve. (ah ah ahh hold on) Just look at San Fran, they were 5-11 last year now their 13-3. We were 6-10 last year, now we're 5-11. Until we start winning we as a franchise are still going to be viewed as a laughing stock until we change our ways. Yes we can go get SOME free agents; I'm just saying don't get crazy on them. And as for the whole 'oh we got Bowen and wilson and so and so, etc. etc.' we got them; their Solid players at best. Let me be that realistic bubble burster for you. Cofield you could argue isn't suited at the NT spot. Josh Wilson got picked on a lot this year and lost a lot of matchups. OJ wasn't a good signing considering his health and play declined as the season went on.

Did we have bad signings? No, not really. Did we have signings that I am 100% confident in? Some. Is our signings better than Vinny's? We'll see, but so far they appear to be. Did we sign too many FA's? Yes!

It just seems to be the same trend with us; "We need to build through the draft" ;"Oh man I would like so and so and ____ in FA" ; "I love all our FA signings, getting him and him and that guy and him and possibly him could be huge for us this year! If we have a good draft we could definitely have something good." ; "We had a solid draft and some great FA's, now I'm stoked and opportunistic for this season!"; "god, so and so sucks, we need to replace so and so, why did we sign him, we need to replace him. I'm just ready for this season to be over and the draft." Repeat.

really. so you can keep using that "whole other regime"'s bad FA signings as a damnation on using FA, but their massively bad drafts don't count? that's... umm... convenient. neither one is 100% safe, but this FO has done better on both fronts, so let's not go crazy with all the "FAs suck" stuff.

I'm just focused on FA. I didn't trust them with anything; draft or FA. They were a bad regime that has us as a bad laughing stock in the league.

To change our views around the league and to us the fans, we need to draft and draft and draft well like it appears that we've been doing and doing less lets get, lets get, we need, if we just fill in this need with him. Like I said its fine to get a guy or two, but come march (or whenever FA starts) people hear are gonna go from wanting 1-4 guys to wanting 5-10 guys. I'm just saying now keep it at 0-2, because the more we get, the worse it gets. Thats when you get a guy in FA that you had a decent need for (lets say DE for example), then when the draft comes around you pass on a DE who you clearly could have gotten. Then come the season your there with an ok DE while the other DE that you passed on in the draft is have a great year.

I'm just focused on FA. I didn't trust them with anything; draft or FA. They were a bad regime that has us as a bad laughing stock in the league.

To change our views around the league and to us the fans, we need to draft and draft and draft well like it appears that we've been doing and doing less lets get, lets get, we need, if we just fill in this need with him. Like I said its fine to get a guy or two, but come march (or whenever FA starts) people hear are gonna go from wanting 1-4 guys to wanting 5-10 guys. I'm just saying now keep it at 0-3, because the more we get, the worse it gets. Thats when you get a guy in FA that you had a decent need for (lets say DE for example), then when the draft comes around you pass on a DE who you clearly could have gotten. Then come the season your there with an ok DE while the other DE that you passed on in the draft is have a great year.

This all started when you decided to "grill Paintrain" for suggesting adding 3 FAs at key positions. But now you're saying it should be up to 3 FAs. So what's the deal?

This was more confusing than your first post, now I really don't know what the hell you're talking about..

Who is saying eschew the draft for free agency? In order to build a strong team we have to master BOTH avenues for acquiring players. So far, Shanahan has missed badly on two players, McNabb and Atogwe. Anyone else? You failed to mention the players we've added via free agency (Cofield, Bowen, Wilson) or via trade (Gaffney, Hightower, Carriker) that haven't been busts at all.

Here's a difficult reality you may need to come to terms with. Some professional athletes are assholes. Sometimes assholes are great players that can help your team win. If you want to root for choir boys then adopt your local Pop Warner team. Give me a talented prick over a polite loser. I'll be the first one posting hooray if we sign Desean Jackson because he represents the type of talent we haven't had on this team in decades. I'm not ignoring his flaws as a leader, just think we have enough character around him to keep him in line.

Since you mentioned whole other regime, then you should ignore the sins of front offices past when discussing the current offseason plan.
I'm a better talker than typer; I'll have a long thought in my head and then say about 3/4's of it and leave out some key words. Thats just a bad habit I have; My bad.

I love DeSean Jackson; I think he's a great player. Having said that he's also a diva and headcase. He also has character problems. Fat Albert was the same way; very talented, but also a headcase me me me kind of guy. The media just licks their chops when they get headcases like those two to talk about. I completely understand why you want DeSean. If the WR's weren't so good in the draft coming out, and we had a need, then yeah I'd get him, but there are some solid WR's in the draft, And even in FA, Marques Colston would be a better value in terms of production, character, teammate etc. You can win though with headcases just as much as you can win with the nice guys.

This all started when you decided to "grill Paintrain" for suggesting adding 3 FAs at key positions. But now you're saying it should be up to 3 FAs. So what's the deal?

type-o

bowen's solid at best? cofield isn't an NT? what team have you been watching.

you're arguing in circles, it's pointless. you're obviously right and no one knows what they're talking about, but its funny how the saints "build through the draft" but the best 2 players their team may have ever have are drew brees and sproles, both of whom signed as FAs.

and green bay traded for favre and got the first big FA ever in reggie white. I don't understand this crusade against FA signings. as long as the players are good it shouldn't matter. plenty of draft picks are horrible or bust, so why not take the best of both? it makes no sense to put artificial limits based on nothing beyond your opinion.

I'm a better talker than typer; I'll have a long thought in my head and then say about 3/4's of it and leave out some key words. Thats just a bad habit I have; My bad.That's a good thing to consider before you decide to grill somebody. You may now remove your foot from your own mouth.

These three plays represent best how I feel about RG3.
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Who is saying eschew the draft for free agency? In order to build a strong team we have to master BOTH avenues for acquiring players. So far, Shanahan has missed badly on two players, McNabb and Atogwe. Anyone else? You failed to mention the players we've added via free agency (Cofield, Bowen, Wilson) or via trade (Gaffney, Hightower, Carriker) that haven't been busts at all.To try to put this back on track, he missed on:

-Donovan McNabb
-Larry Johnson
-O.J. Atogwe
-Mike Williams (this was just bizarre)
-Artis Hicks
-Jammal Brown
-Ma'ake Kemoeatu
-Joey Galloway
-Roydell Williams
-Rocky McIntosh
-Santana Moss
-John Beck

With the criteria that they must have signed for and underperformed (which is typically relative) for the current regime, that's a pretty exhaustive list. The questionable releases list is about 2/3rds that long.

To try to put this back on track, he missed on:

-Donovan McNabb
-Larry Johnson
-O.J. Atogwe
-Mike Williams (this was just bizarre)
-Artis Hicks
-Jammal Brown
-Ma'ake Kemoeatu
-Joey Galloway
-Roydell Williams
-Rocky McIntosh
-Santana Moss
-John Beck

With the criteria that they must have signed for and underperformed (which is typically relative) for the current regime, that's a pretty exhaustive list. The questionable releases list is about 2/3rds that long.

And why is Santana Moss on that list? I personally feel that Shanny had to scrap the bottom of the barrel in FA just to start patching the sh!# job Cerrato left the team in after all these years. That's why you have all these players that obviously weren't elite level talent.