Mike Shanahan

One could say that but it would be reactionary and short sighted. No argument on the QB, disagree on the defense because we had too many pieces that weren't sustainable (Daniels, Holliday, McIntosh, Griffin, Horton/Doughty) and we had zero depth at RB prior to this year.

For all of the 'we are no better off than we were' crowd, of the players who were not retained from the inherited roster, who is making a significant impact on new teams? I can point to three, Carter, Rogers and Edwin Williams who is a backup pressed into duty due to injuries and got a contract extension from the Bears at a backup salary level. Anyone else contributing (not just holding a roster spot or playing but making a positive impact) that I missed?Rinehart and Tryon. Tryon is on IR with the Giants, but still was really good last year. The Tryon thing is super dumb because he was traded so that the Redskins could use Carlos Rogers as the sub package slot corner. Carlos didn't play particularly well at that position (he's playing isolated in SF), so then Shanahan claimed he was playing inconsistently. Well, no shit dude, you traded the slot corner and tried to fill the role with your nominal number one. Why are you surprised that didn't work (rhetorical)?

I'll throw Keiland Williams in there. Sure, Keiland Williams types are a dime a dozen, and we won't miss him. But he's under contract in Detroit for two more seasons, and keeping Torain over him just didn't make any sense.

But wait: is there any other coach/team in the NFL that released three maybe four players who went on to earn contract extensions elsewhere? That's pretty unprecedented in terms of misevaluating ones own roster, isn't it?

I don't have time to do it but I'd love to see someone do a points deficit analysis on Grossman's turnovers. The parameters are how many of his turnovers this season were inside scoring range (within the opponents 35 yard line) and how many of his turnovers directly led to points on the ensuing possession or as a TD return. I'm not a math guy at all but I was thinking minus 3 (minimum for an assumed score on a FG) for any scoring range turnovers and add the points up that resulted from his turnovers to determine the figure.

I think even with our limited talent surrounding him, a quality QB would have been worth at least 4 more wins.3 points per turnover is a pretty solid estimate of what one costs. I'm not going to go deep and actually look at the WPA/EPA effect of every single Grossman turnover, but if he's got 26 turnovers or whatever, than that's about 70-85 net point differential lost on those plays.

Of course, the quarterback who doesn't commit any turnovers doesn't exist of course, so if a Tom Brady would have only committed 12 turnovers in the same offense, the difference would be about 35-50 points of point differential.

That's more than one win, two wins at the high end of the estimate. But unless that quarterback is also better at throwing for yards and points than Rex Grossman is, you still don't have a playoff team. 4 wins is too high of an estimate. You're looking at a solid win that Grossman cost us with his turnover tendency, but there's only about a 2 win difference between Grossman, one of the most culpable turnover machines, and Alex Smith, the quarterback who has commited the fewest turnovers in 15 starts this year.

And Grossman threw for more first downs, points, and yards than Smith did this year. Bottom line, there's no realistic way to add more than a win at the QB position next year without also raising the performance of other players in the offense. The QB isolated stats won't allow that. And then when you allow for the fact that we played a really weak schedule this year, it's not even likely we can improve the QB position next year no matter who we get.

-EDIT- without improving offensive passing stats, that is. You can always find a guy who can light up the scoreboard. Or just buy Grossman a top receiver or something.

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I hope Shanahan is retained. I see improvement in the team. We need a good QB and a few more talented offensive players.

I've mentioned this before on here, but i once watched a special on NFL network, it was looking at the NFL's most dominate teams throughout history, and somewhere in there the general consensus was that it took on average between 5 and 7 years for a team to be consistantly dominant. What i'm saying is look at teams like Steelers, Patriots, Eagles, etc... It took those teams many bad years before a consistant winning product was built.

Our biggest problem has been no continuity at the Head Coach position, and the fact that up until last season, we never had someone other than Snyder making all the decisions for the team. Gibbs has been the only credible coach we ever had since Snyder has owned us.

Shanahan needs easily 5 years to turn things around. I think after his fourth year, he should be re-signed. This team for years upon years ignored the draft, bought only big name, old veterans. Some of our trades set the franchise back several years with each mistake. Give Mike S. the team he needs to build this team his way. He's not old for a coach, he could easily be with us 10 more seasons and just imagine if we can be winning throughout those 10 years.

^^^^^^^^^httr....

I have read alot of the posts in this thread. I want to give you my opion and it will be quick and fairly short.

This franchise needs to keep Mike S. and Bruse Allen for this coming year and for the forseeable future. I would be in no hurry to get rid of either piece of this current regime, and to be honest the best move in my opinion is keep these gentlemen in place till they have the team they want.

I do not believe that 2012 is any kind of make or break season and what we need here in DC is consistency in the coaching staff and management. There may not be a QB that can be aquired this offseason to be the face of the franchise and I hope that they do not reach for a piece ala DMac. Patience is the name of the game, this team was in dissaray and I am sorry but we did not have the right team of players in place. Yes we may have had a star here or there but not a team. Building a team takes time and is not done in one off season. Especially when one does not have a QB. That is the key to any perennial winner in the NFL. There is also no way that I would support this team sending away multiple 1st round picks for A Luck. Yeah he MAY be a great prospect, but that is what he is a prospect. Ryan Leaf was a prospect, Heath Schuler was a prospect just to name a few of the highly touted QB NFL prospects that have been utter failures.

This talk about getting rid of MS or comparing his win loss record with JZ is ridiculous and just bothers the hell out of me. It is easy to compare W-L records but this does not speak to the whole story of coaching in the NFL.

I honestly want MS to finish his full contract in DC.

Even if he was doing a lousy job and we cut his ass loose next season, with our track record for coaches....who the hell would take the job? He Must finish his contract and (be given full opportunity for success) by that time, I believe this team will be nicely competitive.....or better.

Even if he was doing a lousy job and we cut his ass loose next season, with our track record for coaches....who the hell would take the job? He Must finish his contract and (be given full opportunity for success) by that time, I believe this team will be nicely competitive.....or better.I can understand this.

It was dumb to hire Mike Shanahan without interviewing other coaches who might have had a clearer vision for this franchise that wouldn't have been made some dumb statement about needing five years or something. Snyder is a sucker. That's pretty proven at this point. But he may need to give Shanny 3 out of the 5 years he promised him just to show other candidates that he'll be more patient with you than you really deserve him to be.

I can understand this.

It was dumb to hire Mike Shanahan without interviewing other coaches who might have had a clearer vision for this franchise that wouldn't have been made some dumb statement about needing five years or something. Snyder is a sucker. That's pretty proven at this point. But he may need to give Shanny 3 out of the 5 years he promised him just to show other candidates that he'll be more patient with you than you really deserve him to be.

Snyder comes off as someone who will believe anything and know little about football obviously. I'm not a fan of his but I do admire his will to win,he's a fan that got the chance of a lifetime but sometimes I feel like we can't win with Dan as owner

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When do wins/losses come into the equation? Until we get a better QB?

I feel your pain! Not sure I can take an 11 loss season this year. I really want to beat the Eagles on Sunday! Seriously, as for wins and losses in the evaluation equation, I think they are always there. The variables in the algorithm are weighted, and the weight {assigned to wins as a means of evaluating the coach} should increase with each year he moves forward in his contract. In other words, the longer he coaches, the more pressure there is to produce wins.

In Shanahan's situation, I think he is still in that phase where the number of wins carries a relatively low weight. In my view, that wiegt increases some beginning next season. I don't think he can survive 4-12 or 5-11 next season. I say that because attendance was down this year and the team had to remove seats from the stadium to avoid a local TV blackout for the Vikings game. If that problem persists/increases next year, Snyder will likely make a move.

I have said in a couple of posts that it is important to improve the play at the QB position next season. I feel that way because QB play is the area of greatest impact on the outcome of close games like the Redskins played this year (Dallas, Dallas, Philly, Patriots, etc.). Not to mention the impact really poor QB play had on the outcome of the Dolphins game. The Redskins and Shanahan need measuarble improvement in the win column for 2012. Most likely 7-9 would be golden for Shanny, 6-10 marginal but probably OK. I just don't think Mike can survivie a 4-12 or 5-11 disaster in year three! It's time to move up a bit in the power poll in 2012.