Mike Shanahan

3 years to show progress.

Another double digit loss season in 2012 and I think MS is on the hot seat and rightfully so.

I can argue that we have shown progress. We're in a much better position than we were 2 years ago.
-younger team
-good offensive system
-cap room
-GM/organizational improvement
-more talent on Defense

Wins and Losses aren't there yet. I do expect to get more wins next year, but I don't expect necessarily to be a playoff team.

This.

In plain speak, one could just say we're not any better than the team Mike took over and leave it there. A counter argument just doesn't hold water, period. Mike isn't winning. We had a better QB then. We had a more consistent, if not better overall, defense then. Etc etc. Depth on the offensive line is...immaterial when you don't have a QB to lead the offense to higher production. Depth at running back...not really difficult to find in this league. Mike's little pats on the back to himself amount to, well, just pats on the back. They don't mean squat on any given Sunday.

And we fire Shanahan and bring in someone else, and then that won't be working like it should by the end of that second season, then we'll fire him and bring in someone else, and by the end of that second season, we'll fire him because that regime isn't working, and so we'll bring in yet another coach, give him two years, and then we'll fire him because HE isn't working, and....... well, I guess you get my drift....

I can argue that we have shown progress. We're in a much better position than we were 2 years ago.
-younger team
-good offensive system
-cap room
-GM/organizational improvement
-more talent on Defense

Wins and Losses aren't there yet. I do expect to get more wins next year, but I don't expect necessarily to be a playoff team.


I agree! The points you made point to progress and points to the Redskins being on the right track.

I can argue that we have shown progress. We're in a much better position than we were 2 years ago.
-younger team
-good offensive system
-cap room
-GM/organizational improvement
-more talent on Defense

Wins and Losses aren't there yet. I do expect to get more wins next year, but I don't expect necessarily to be a playoff team.

Agree with everything, but good offensive system is very debateble. Im not for firing Shanny, but I think by next year 10 losses again would mitigate everything you just listed.

I can argue that we have shown progress. We're in a much better position than we were 2 years ago.
-younger team
-good offensive system
-cap room
-GM/organizational improvement
-more talent on Defense

Wins and Losses aren't there yet. I do expect to get more wins next year, but I don't expect necessarily to be a playoff team.

Exactly. It sounds stupid but wins and losses are not always the best judge of progress. A couple plays decide who wins and loses most NFL games. The media talking heads will point to Shannys record as compared to Zorn and conclude that no progress has been made but those of us who watch the team every week can see the difference between now and Zorns last year. The Redskins are greatly improved in just about every area but it will not show up in the win/loss column until they get better more consistent play from the QB position.

Exactly. It sounds stupid but wins and losses are not always the best judge of progress. A couple plays decide who wins and loses most NFL games. The media talking heads will point to Shannys record as compared to Zorn and conclude that no progress has been made but those of us who watch the team every week can see the difference between now and Zorns last year. The Redskins are greatly improved in just about every area but it will not show up in the win/loss column until they get better more consistent play from the QB position.

When do wins/losses come into the equation? Until we get a better QB?

When do wins/losses come into the equation? Until we get a better QB?

I don't have time to do it but I'd love to see someone do a points deficit analysis on Grossman's turnovers. The parameters are how many of his turnovers this season were inside scoring range (within the opponents 35 yard line) and how many of his turnovers directly led to points on the ensuing possession or as a TD return. I'm not a math guy at all but I was thinking minus 3 (minimum for an assumed score on a FG) for any scoring range turnovers and add the points up that resulted from his turnovers to determine the figure.

I think even with our limited talent surrounding him, a quality QB would have been worth at least 4 more wins.

One could say that but it would be reactionary and short sighted. No argument on the QB, disagree on the defense because we had too many pieces that weren't sustainable (Daniels, Holliday, McIntosh, Griffin, Horton/Doughty) and we had zero depth at RB prior to this year.

For all of the 'we are no better off than we were' crowd, of the players who were not retained from the inherited roster, who is making a significant impact on new teams? I can point to three, Carter, Rogers and Edwin Williams who is a backup pressed into duty due to injuries and got a contract extension from the Bears at a backup salary level. Anyone else contributing (not just holding a roster spot or playing but making a positive impact) that I missed?

You missed Chad Rhindardttt. McIntosh is still on the team not sure how he figures in?

Like I said the oline is marginally better, but what does that do for the offense as a whole given Mike's decisions at QB?

And we fire Shanahan and bring in someone else, and then that won't be working like it should by the end of that second season, then we'll fire him and bring in someone else, and by the end of that second season, we'll fire him because that regime isn't working, and so we'll bring in yet another coach, give him two years, and then we'll fire him because HE isn't working, and....... well, I guess you get my drift....

I know...the revolving syndrome is a bad one and I don't want to see it either.

You missed Chad Rhindardttt. McIntosh is still on the team not sure how he figures in?

Like I said the oline is marginally better, but what does that do for the offense as a whole given Mike's decisions at QB?

Rinehart is like Carter, a poor fit for the scheme. He's a power guy, not a zone-quickness guy.. McIntosh is a poor fit as a 3-4 ILB. He was completely lost last year and despite some early success this season regressed to show his poor fit so he wasn't sustainable as a player to be counted on.

No excuses for the QB situation. Picks should have been made late in both drafts to get at least a project to develop and their notion that they could make Rex or Beck into something they hadn't already shown was clearly wrong.

The only positive to come out of the QB position is that the OL is probably a RT away from being solid enough to be effective every week, even good some weeks so that's not an urgent focus along with fixing the QB position. Now if they have to include picks to get their QB it's not devastating because we don't have to count on every single pick to fill a need.