There goes the neighborhood - Tunisia Edition

I find it amusing when people suggest we should have been more humane to the Japanese while they were trying to conquer the world while slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people.

You can't win with BB. You can make a completely cogent agrument that blows up his angry and incoherent babble and he'll shift to more nonsense about how terrible the U.S. is or it's all Christians' fault.

Your point about him studying some more history is sure to fall on deaf ears, as facts about why the U.S. was brought into WWII, or why we were at odds with the USSR in the first place don't sync-up with his points.

Or, what I'm saying is that when these violent events happen, it's important to realize the underlying causes.

In my opinion, the US has a habit of getting much too involved when it comes to how other nations govern themselves. No only do we stick our national nose where it doesn't belong but we happen to be really bad at it. The end result is that we end up fighting wars to force a system of government on people who, based on results to date, don't want it. (and don't have to want it) There seems to be this thought among some people here that we automatically have the right to engage in the internal affairs of sovereign nations. I disagree. (and please don't point to 9/11 as a blanket justification for any of this - without a shitload of shady actions on the part of the US, the case could be made that there never would have been a 9/11)

Regarding the religion thing, and I'm really trying to be respectful here, the fact that these "terrorists" (talk about a word with an ever broadening definition) happen to believe in a completely different faith then the vast majority of Americans, well, that just makes it so much easier to objectify and pigeon hole them doesn't it? They don't believe in our god or our system of govt? Let's get those ****ing heathens! They need our help, ignorant violent bastards. They really should thank us for coming into their society (which has existed multiple orders of magnitude longer than our own) and forcing leaders who support us into power.

I'm providing a counter point to the above position.

I find it amusing when people suggest we should have been more humane to the Japanese while they were trying to conquer the world while slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people.

This is where you are confused. I'm not making any claims a far as right or wrong. What I'm saying is that we don't get to both blow up a couple hundred thousand civilians, justify it militarily, and then play the morality card when others do the exact same thing (on a much smaller scale).

This is where you are confused. I'm not making any claims a far as right or wrong. What I'm saying is that we don't get to both blow up a couple hundred thousand civilians, justify it militarily, and then play the morality card when others do the exact same thing (on a much smaller scale).

Yes we do.
And we do it with a proper calling card and uniformed soldiers.
Bin Laden and his buddies changed the rules when they chose to start a conflict anonymously. Any collateral damage is their fault AFAIC.

This is where you are confused. I'm not making any claims a far as right or wrong. What I'm saying is that we don't get to both blow up a couple hundred thousand civilians, justify it militarily, and then play the morality card when others do the exact same thing (on a much smaller scale).I was unaware that the US had taken airliners loaded with civilian men, women, and children, and flown them into office buildings of a country that had not declared war on their country. (In fact, we were invited into Saudi Arabia by their government.)

"Exact same thing" indeed. :doh: You made a claim of right and wrong, and failed badly at it.

Yes we do.
And we do it with a proper calling card and uniformed soldiers.
Bin Laden and his buddies changed the rules when they chose to start a conflict anonymously. Any collateral damage is their fault AFAIC.

and once again, i'm sure the people you advocate accidently killing wouldn't possibly mis-direct their hate at the americans that are actually killing them instead of the terrorists that "made them do it".

that's the same excuse abusive husbands use.

this thread seems to be going in circles, but i personally don't think there's justification to kill thousands of innocent civillians just because they're located in the wrong part of the world, and i don't think that kind of work helps our standing or safety in any way. we should go after the bad guys, but not by shooting everything in sight.

and once again, i'm sure the people you advocate accidently killing wouldn't possibly mis-direct their hate at the americans that are actually killing them instead of the terrorists that "made them do it".

that's the same excuse abusive husbands use.

this thread seems to be going in circles, but i personally don't think there's justification to kill thousands of innocent civillians just because they're located in the wrong part of the world, and i don't think that kind of work helps our standing or safety in any way. we should go after the bad guys, but not by shooting everything in sight.Thanks for the information that we justify killing thousands of innocent civilians just because they're located in the wrong part of the world. And not to help take down a brutal dictator. And that we shoot everything in sight when we do so.

It's not the people killing over a movie they don't like, that are the problem. We are the problem.

If we accept the random killing, ethnic cleansing, driving people of a certain religion out of their homes, and burning of churches, is our fault, things will be better. We'll be in better standing and safety......... "abusive husbands" syndrome indeed.

and once again, i'm sure the people you advocate accidently killing wouldn't possibly mis-direct their hate at the americans that are actually killing them instead of the terrorists that "made them do it".

that's the same excuse abusive husbands use.

this thread seems to be going in circles, but i personally don't think there's justification to kill thousands of innocent civillians just because they're located in the wrong part of the world, and i don't think that kind of work helps our standing or safety in any way. we should go after the bad guys, but not by shooting everything in sight.

I can't understand why this is such a hard concept for some to comprehend or accept. And if you acknowledge that our actions in the past have played some part in the current climate, you're some kind of anti-American asshole. It's no wonder we keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

I can't understand why this is such a hard concept for some to comprehend or accept. And if you acknowledge that our actions in the past have played some part in the current climate, you're some kind of anti-American asshole. It's no wonder we keep making the same mistakes over and over again.Thatguy's premise is faulty, and his conclusion best applied to his own argument rather than current policy.

Sure we aren't perfect or saints. But seriously, what "actions (of ours) in the past play some part in the current climate" over there, of storming embassies and killing people over a movie?

Also, way to go America for sticking your collective nose where it doesn't belong for decades. That policy is clearly working out for you. You should stick with that.

Agree totally. Our fail foreign policy is only creating more enemies across the world.


Religion can be great but there are many examples where it abused. This is one of them. Violence is never the answer.


Tell that to our founding fathers. Violence is sometimes the answer. Not in this case though.



Cracks me up when people bring up the Crusades.
How long ago was that?


Well, the KKK hangs on tightly to it's religious beliefs and we know all too well what they are capable of. There is a lot of violence from christianity over the years as well.




Yea, and so do a lot of other people.
Far more than that what the nukes killed.

You can't say that because you simply don't know. Not that I don't disagree with your point in regards to how we attacked them and why we attacked that particular place.





remember, iran was a democracy till the US/UK blew it up for english oil interests in the 1950s. the US put saddam, the taliban, and the shah into power. the allied powers sorta kicked the palestinians out of palestine in the 1940s, so all of this meddling in the ME/SWA has caused some long term problems for us there.

THIS is so key to it all. People talk about "knowing history", yet refuse to actually look at history. We are largely reponsible for the instability in the middle east right now and it's all about oil. It's always been about oil.




Yes we do.
And we do it with a proper calling card and uniformed soldiers.
Bin Laden and his buddies changed the rules when they chose to start a conflict anonymously. Any collateral damage is their fault AFAIC.

No, we really can't. Well, not without being a huge hypocrite.