What's your take on our coaching?

If Mike and Kyle needed the perfect fit QB to make the offense fly (as many apologists say) then isn't it just a bigger indictment of their efforts in the personnel dept? It means McNabb, Rex and Beck have all been mistakes. You could even throw Jason into the mix as in letting him go was probably a mistake as he's easily been the best QB on the roster in the last several years.

Looking forward, we know the coaches have yet to find their QB. At best he's available in the draft or off-season as a FA. Drafting a future QB to me is an enormous risk. Mike hasn't ever developed a QB and shows at best average ability to spot potential. Drafting the future QB also means we're looking at another 2-3 years of rebuilding. I guess I hope there's a perfect fit FA out there who has the talent and ability to fit our system, whatever the eff that is.

What do you mean he's never developed a QB? How are you defining develop exactly?

I've been saying in other threads that it will take a H. Walker type deal, which it should. I never thought of 4 1st rounders, but I think giving up 4 first rounders straight up would be a great deal.

Shanny & Allen have thus far shown they're at least decent in finding value in mid to late rounds. I have confidence that if they traded a boatload of picks away, as long as they kept a few picks they'd parlay them into more.

We're hopefully not in the suck for Luck race to the bottom, but are in the trade-up for Luck mix. btw, need a name for that, but I guess it's too early & that will come in the offseason.

2 firsts for Bradford or 4 for Luck, what do you do? Maybe our 2012 first puts us (meaning them) in a position to get Blackmon. They get Luck and Blackmon, we get Bradford and keep two firsts for the future. I'm happy with that

More likely to be able to get Bradford if the Rams are in position to get Luck than we are to get Locker from the Titans.

Rams would be much better off trading the pick for Luck to get many other players to help Bradford. They have a good QB. They need players to help Bradford. Not another QB. They would get more for Luck than Bradford and acquire more players. A much better option for the Rams. The Titans can be dealt with but it won't be cheap. But cheaper than Luck. The Colts would be smart to draft luck but not the Rams.

What do you mean he's never developed a QB? How are you defining develop exactly?

Develop as in taking raw potential and turning it into championship level performance. Montana and Elway don't count for obvious reasons. Cutler...I don't think Mike added anything to what Cutler already was/is.

Another way to state it is Mike doesn't have the track record Belichick does for instance. Bill developed Brady and then Cassel. Starting from nothing, or close to it anyway, w/ the leavings of Snyder and a cokehead there's not much reason to think Mike is the guy to make this thing happen.

And admittedly I tend to look at Mike's SBs as circumstance more than anything. He had the best TE, RB, defense at the time, of which he didn't develop and in the case of the defense he had nothing to do with. Wade was probably the best DC in the game then. Mike may have helped Elway...do...something...different?

I don't know. I mean I get that Elway was a star QB before Shanahan got there. But he had his best years as a QB (both statistically and rings wise) under Shanahan. And Young blossomed under Shanahan as his offensive coordinator. Griese, I believe enjoyed his best years under Shanahan as did Plummer. Would Cutler have had a different career trajectory if he hadn't been selected by Shanahan and the Broncos? I don't know. And how does he not get any credit for Terrell Davis?

I don't know. I mean I get that Elway was a star QB before Shanahan got there. But he had his best years as a QB (both statistically and rings wise) under Shanahan. And Young blossomed under Shanahan as his offensive coordinator. Griese, I believe enjoyed his best years under Shanahan as did Plummer. Would Cutler have had a different career trajectory if he hadn't been selected by Shanahan and the Broncos? I don't know. And how does he not get any credit for Terrell Davis?

These are all fair points and probably exposing my bias against more than yours for Mike (if one exists). Young is especially good example. Elway had the best situation while Mike was in Denver and yest that had a lot to do with Mike's running scheme. Some of us always wondered if that stellar ground game could work outside the suspect AFC West. So far?

...I didn't remember Mike selecting Terrell. Dude was a beast and w/o the injury would have been a legit GOAT contender.

I feel like we had a great offseason. We went and took WHAT WAS AVAILABLE. We didn't stretch for a QB. We got some great building blocks for the future. The Redskins won't say it, but we're rebuilding. It takes time.

All the hate on Kyle I find a little comical. We have bottom 5 offensive talent in this league with a healthy roster, let alone losing all the pieces we've lost. Over the past two years we've made huge transitions on the defensive side of the ball. We now have a good and competitive defense. Time to spend the next two years focusing on modernizing the offense and getting the pieces we need.

It is comical. We were overperforming to our talent level prior to the injuries. I'd say that's pretty good coaching.

I think many fans want to admit how crappy our team was when MS got here. I refuse to admit that the organization thinks Beck/Grossman are legit "franchise" QB's. They do have to come out publically and say nice things about them...that's what you do. We've got a ways to go, don't start going all "Snyder."

It is comical. We were overperforming to our talent level prior to the injuries. I'd say that's pretty good coaching.

I think many fans want to admit how crappy our team was when MS got here. I refuse to admit that the organization thinks Beck/Grossman are legit "franchise" QB's. They do have to come out publically and say nice things about them...that's what you do. We've got a ways to go, don't start going all "Snyder."

Your right! What are they supposed to say? These two Dog Assed Mf..ers couldn't make the starting team for Odessa Permian? But there all I got.
....as you point out.
I Really cannot understand WHY so many fans cannot seem to grasp this and that the coaches comments (any coach at any given time) are just "CoachSpeak" and may have little to do with the truth.

These are all fair points and probably exposing my bias against more than yours for Mike (if one exists). Young is especially good example. Elway had the best situation while Mike was in Denver and yest that had a lot to do with Mike's running scheme. Some of us always wondered if that stellar ground game could work outside the suspect AFC West. So far?

...I didn't remember Mike selecting Terrell. Dude was a beast and w/o the injury would have been a legit GOAT contender.

I thought Shanahan and Davis both came in 1995.

I don't have any bias for Mike Shanahan, I'm kind of neutral toward him.

These are all fair points and probably exposing my bias against more than yours for Mike (if one exists). Young is especially good example. Elway had the best situation while Mike was in Denver and yest that had a lot to do with Mike's running scheme. Some of us always wondered if that stellar ground game could work outside the suspect AFC West. So far?

...I didn't remember Mike selecting Terrell. Dude was a beast and w/o the injury would have been a legit GOAT contender.

That stellar ground game has done well in Houston, Oakland(when Cable introduced it), and Tennessee.