'Occupy' types

In a land where you cannot be jailed solely on the basis of what you say, where everyone has access to the political process and all are eligible to vote and to run for office, peaceful revolution is not "impossible in the US". It has happened before (MLK's civil rights movement) and can happen again.

Peaceful revolution, however, is unable to take place here:
Egypt Erupts: Arab Spring cradle seethes with fresh unrest - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW7b9dZqvxU)

A Weekend Of Violence in Cairo - Image Gallery - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZhm9ADC4fQ&feature=related)

To equate what's going on in Egypt at Tahrir Square to pepper spray at a college campus is just insulting.

Deleted by Edit.

My only opinion on that video, is that the protesters sitting down were idiots. Yeah, the cops could step over the protesters, and certainly it is a flipped out scene to see the officer stepping over the line to spray them, but the protesters had a ton of warnings, and simply refused to obey what were simple lawful orders. They were well aware of what the refusal meant, in terms of getting sprayed, and so when it happened, it's hard for me to build up any amount of sympathy for them.

This whole movement just seems like a shadow of the civil rights movement, and sadly reflects how pathetic our country has become. I mean you have a group of protesters, than a hundred cell phone users hoping to capture the next Rodney King video, some people laughing (can you imagine anyone laughing as Rosa Park refused to go to the back?, or at MLK Jr's I had a dream speech? Those were serious issues, and demanded serious respect), then you have a cop walking over the protester line to spray them so that the police could move them off of a small piece of pavement. Simply ridiculous on all accounts.


You do have to wonder why just a few decided to sit and get sprayed while the other stood and just watched. Its like they voted the dumb one to actually do the sitting and get sprayed while the others watch and took pics. I thought there was strengths in numbers.

Cal is paying for the medical bills of the students who were peppered sprayed, dismissing the misdemeanor charges against the protestors who were arrested and has placed two officers and the chief of police on administrative leave.
University to pay pepper spray medical bills - Local News - Detroit, MI - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45414078)

Another take on the issue:
"Charles J. Kelly, a former Baltimore Police Department lieutenant who wrote the department's use of force guidelines, said pepper spray is a "compliance tool" that can be used on subjects who do not resist, and is preferable to simply lifting protesters.

"When you start picking up human bodies, you risk hurting them," Kelly said. "Bodies don't have handles on them."

After reviewing the video, Kelly said he observed at least two cases of "active resistance" from protesters. In one instance, a woman pulls her arm back from an officer. In the second instance, a protester curls into a ball. Each of those actions could have warranted more force, including baton strikes and pressure-point techniques.

"What I'm looking at is fairly standard police procedure," Kelly said.
UC Davis Pepper Spray Video At Occupy Protest Launches Probe By University (VIDEO) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/19/uc-davis-pepper-spray-video_n_1103075.html)

On the other hand:
Los Angeles attorney Okorie Okorocha called the pepper spraying unreasoned and excessive.

"Tear gas you spray in the area you want people to move away from," Okorocha told ABC News. "Pepper spray is to keep the people from being able to mount an attack. Here the police officer is trying to disperse a crowd. Why would you incapacitate them?"
Occupy UC Davis Pepper Spraying: Cops Suspended - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/occupy-uc-davis-pepper-spraying-cops-suspended/story?id=14992787) ... [FYI: Per his website, Mr. Okorocha is a high profile criminal defense lawyer in California who's website says his nickname is "Dr. DUI" (sorry, I just got a laugh out of that) Newport Beach DUI Lawyers DUI Attorneys in Newport Beach DUI Defense in Orange County (http://www.bhglaw.com/OkorieOkorocha.html)]

Finally, from the UC Davis Police Guidelines on use of Force, specifically, use of chemical agents:

812. Only authorized personnel may possess and maintain department issued oleoresin capsicum spray. Chemical agents are weapons used to minimize the potential for injury to officers, offenders, or other persons. They should be used only in situations where such force reasonably appears justified and necessary.
http://www.ucop.edu/ucophome/coordrev/ucpolicies/documents/policepol_adminproc.pdf

In a land where you cannot be jailed solely on the basis of what you say, where everyone has access to the political process and all are eligible to vote and to run for office, peaceful revolution is not "impossible in the US". It has happened before (MLK's civil rights movement) and can happen again.

Peaceful revolution, however, is unable to take place here:
Egypt Erupts: Arab Spring cradle seethes with fresh unrest - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW7b9dZqvxU)

A Weekend Of Violence in Cairo - Image Gallery - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZhm9ADC4fQ&feature=related)

To equate what's going on in Egypt at Tahrir Square to pepper spray at a college campus is just insulting.

There are many types of revolutions and the Civil Rights Movement is but one type of a revolution....and although the movement considered a non-violent revolution it wasn't short on bloodshed.

As for a peaceful revolution not being attainable in Egypt I think it is important keep in mind that this is a revolution where the people are trying to transfer state power from those who held it before to a new ruling coalition. You would be hard pressed to find revolutions such as the one in Egypt that is peaceful.

There are many types of revolutions and the Civil Rights Movement is but one type of a revolution....and although the movement considered a non-violent revolution it wasn't short on bloodshed.

As for a peaceful revolution not being attainable in Egypt I think it is important keep in mind that this is a revolution where the people are trying to transfer state power from those who held it before to a new ruling coalition. You would be hard pressed to find revolutions such as the one in Egypt that is peaceful.

I agree on all points.

As to the Civil Rights Movement, it was often met with violence from authorities but, under MLK and others, I believe that the movement itself called for non-violent actions and that it was the leaders who called for non-violence who acheived the most lasting results. Given the violence used to oppose them, it is a testament to the likes of MLK and Medgar Evers that they did not resort to violence but worked to change the system from within and, I believe, accomplished a sea change in how the law operates. Had MLK and others called for violent response to the violence they were subjected to, I think we would have a very different - much worse - US today. Although some called for violence, I believe these groups were eventually marginalized and rendered ineffective by the more successful non-violent actions (legal actions, marches, sit-ins, etc.).

As to Egypt, I agree; it is a revolution of an entirely different animal than the OWS protests - that, in fact, was my point. In fact, the quoted Kennedy speech was given in 1962 to members of the Latin America diplomatic corp to encourage these countries to permit freedom of speech akin to that in America and to tolerate dissent where none was being tolerated. [ John F. Kennedy: Address on the first Anniversary of the Alliance for Progress. (http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=9100#axzz1eYR3iBHb) ] Again, I agree that the goals fo the Egyptian protests and actions like theirs, almost certainly demand "the blood of patriots and tyrants". Changing the political spectrum and the focus of political discussion in the US, however, may demand persistence, hard work and patience, it does not require that those seeking such change also seek the blood of their opponents.

In a land where you cannot be jailed solely on the basis of what you say, where everyone has access to the political process and all are eligible to vote and to run for office, peaceful revolution is not "impossible in the US". It has happened before (MLK's civil rights movement) and can happen again.

Peaceful revolution, however, is unable to take place here:
Egypt Erupts: Arab Spring cradle seethes with fresh unrest - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW7b9dZqvxU)

A Weekend Of Violence in Cairo - Image Gallery - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZhm9ADC4fQ&feature=related)

To equate what's going on in Egypt at Tahrir Square to pepper spray at a college campus is just insulting.


Funny how Obama has not commented on the violence in Cairo. I guess when you back the oppressive military then you just look the other way.

I've been pepper sprayed and let me tell you it's effing awful. It's actually a funny story!!! About 20 years ago when I was a young lad I rode my bike everywhere. There was a german shephard in my neighborhood that was ferocious so I started carrying OC-10 bear spray. One day the effing K9 comes out to get me and I fumbled w/ the pepper spray and...you guessed it...soaked my own face and neck in seconds flat. Dog just watched me writhe there in pain, leaving my bike in the road to stumble back home.

The not so funny part is (for some people) at least pepper spray has permanent effects. My face has since been ultra sensative to dry, cold and wind...cracks like paint if I don't use lotion and especially in the winter. Allergies also started for me then. I've read some people end up w/ nervous system issues after pepper spray.

That said, the cops who use spray on non-threatening, peaceful protestors should be brought to justice.

Personally if a cop brutalized me or someone close to me w/o good reason you can bet your sweet ass I will take care of it myself and see that thug take his/her last breath...mean it.

*SPOILER ALERT*

Remember in Under Siege 2 when the evil guy takes the pepper spray from steven seagals daughter and sprays it in his mouth like bianca and says "that's not mace sweetheart, it peppery spray sold to civilians "?

That guy was totally sweet. I think he ended up dieing in a knife fight in the kitchen cart at the end of the movie, but in real life id take his character over segal's. That guy was totally badass

Well unless you want to be peppered spray hence OC-Davis, then go without me. Despite being against the Wall Street thing. Still not my cup of tea to protest. Sorry!