Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

Yeah, he's a been a cancer to his quarterbacks for sure, but his numbers are undeniable. Stats-wise he's probably a top 3 receiver all time. He works his tail off and has never had any off the field transgressions legally. I've never liked TO, but in my mind he's without question a first-ballot HOF'er.

Just to reiterate, I think he should be. I just wouldn't be surprised if he isn't. I think it's a shame when he gets lumped in with the "lawless thugs" when really his issues are far different

Just to reiterate, I think he should be. I just wouldn't be surprised if he isn't. I think it's a shame when he gets lumped in with the "lawless thugs" when really his issues are far different

TO learned his egotistical ways from none other than Jerry Rice (trust me, he did) and went further and became a pest to all his QB's. As for a Lawless thug, he has always had a good heart outside the field and has helped many people in many ways. Hard to figure him out.

TO learned his egotistical ways from none other than Jerry Rice (trust me, he did) and went further and became a pest to all his QB's. As for a Lawless thug, he has always had a good heart outside the field and has helped many people in many ways. Hard to figure him out.

Yeah, I know all about Rice's egotistical ways. But like TO, aside from the "prostitution" incident, never any real off-field issues.

Here's a question for you guys (not to take this thread too far off topic). If you had to choose one-who goes in 1st ballot. TO or Marvin Harrison?

Let's say TO's career is over: Here are his numbers-15 years; 1,078 receptions; 15,934 yards; 156 TDs

Harrison-13 years; 1,102 receptions; 14,580 yards; 128 TDs

One a complete loner who often wouldn't even go into team huddles, the other invites the young WRs on the team to live and train with him in the off-season. One of them has thrown almost all his QBs under the bus, the other played with one of the best of all time. One of them has never had a serious issue with the law, the other....curiously involved in a fatal shooting.

While T.O had his share of quality QB's he still never had someone like Peyton throwing to him yet he was still able to put up more yards. I also want to avoid whoever has the higher number wins but the gap in TD catches is pretty far apart even taking into account the fact that T.O has two years on Marvin.

Plus T.O never shot a gun at another person :D

Here's a question for you guys (not to take this thread too far off topic). If you had to choose one-who goes in 1st ballot. TO or Marvin Harrison?

Let's say TO's career is over: Here are his numbers-15 years; 1,078 receptions; 15,934 yards; 156 TDs

Harrison-13 years; 1,102 receptions; 14,580 yards; 128 TDs

One a complete loner who often wouldn't even go into team huddles, the other invites the young WRs on the team to live and train with him in the off-season. One of them has thrown almost all his QBs under the bus, the other played with one of the best of all time. One of them has never had a serious issue with the law, the other....curiously involved in a fatal shooting.

Tough, tough choice, Harrison always reminded me of Monk and I always liked him until the shooting incident, which shocked the hell out of me. Coin flip!!

While T.O had his share of quality QB's he still never had someone like Peyton throwing to him yet he was still able to put up more yards. I also want to avoid whoever has the higher number wins but the gap in TD catches is pretty far apart even taking into account the fact that T.O has two years on Marvin.

Plus T.O never shot a gun at another person :D

But I bet some people would think harrison over TO. They get so caught up with the player based on what is defined as a good player for their team, rather than looking at them as a person outside the scope of football and stats. When these types of considerations are a part of the public's selection criteria, stats tend to get left on the back burner. Sure TO can be a punk at work but he hasn't been caught up in major criminal investigations. If we are going to start analyzing players beyond in the field numbers, and them as people, let's start with not being involved in shootings.

You could say a part of Monk's delay getting in also had to do with his personality or lack theirof. When it came to game and postgame, he wasn't compelling. Not what the public wanted from a player, so the stats got lost in he equation. Him and TO might have the same results getting into the HOF just due to being on the extremes of the expected personality spectrum.

Yes!!

But I bet some people would think harrison over TO. They get so caught up with the player based on what is defined as a good player for their team, rather than looking at them as a person outside the scope of football and stats. When these types of considerations are a part of the public's selection criteria, stats tend to get left on the back burner. Sure TO can be a punk at work but he hasn't been caught up in major criminal investigations. If we are going to start analyzing players beyond in the field numbers, and them as people, let's start with not being involved in shootings.

You could say a part of Monk's delay getting in also had to do with his personality or lack theirof. When it came to game and postgame, he wasn't compelling. Not what the public wanted from a player, so the stats got lost in he equation. Him and TO might have the same results getting into the HOF just due to being on the extremes of the expected personality spectrum.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Personally I think TO is a first ballot HOF, but the HOF voters will make him wait a year.

Yeah, they say off-field stuff doesn't matter. And it seemingly doesn't when it's truly off-field. Hence why it didn't take any time to consider guys like Lawrence Taylor and Michael Irvin.

But, your locker room/post game personality I'm certain is a factor for many voters. Even if they deny it

Harrison was better more recently. T.O. had the better career overall.