Updated Title: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Reinstated

Regardless of how you feel about the lockout I think people are missing the fact that NFL Owners are running legal monopolies. So comparing them to the rules and privileges experienced by other private businesses is simply a case of comparing apples to oranges.

Not saying that the NFL should be required to give the players access to their books but at the same time they should at least be required evaluation by a neutral third and even fourth party (that doesn't evoke memories of Arther Anderson) and in turn report their findings to the players..

A look at the hidden problems of the lockout on our youth. How it affects their young lives.

Roger Goodell: Not enough negotiation between NFL owners, players - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Roger-Goodell-discusses-NFL-labor-situation-with-Bengals-season-ticket-holders-051111)

Why people keep relating their job/business to that of the NFL is beyond me. It's not even remotely comparable in the least. You know why you can tell your employees that? Because you can replace them on a whim. Now, let your business and your wealth depended on people that you could not replace, then chances are you wouldn't be dictating much of anything. Not unless you were absolutely stupid and wanted to lose your income. Don't think of the NFL players as employees, think of them as the actual product because that's exactly what they are. Who holds more power? The record label or the famous recording artist? The recording artist can find another label that will be willing to take less and sponsor them, the recording label would be out of luck.

Same thing here bro. There are other billionaires out that that would put together a plan to form another league and take less just so they could profit.

You are obviously entrenched in your "rage against the machine", tea-party type position against the NFL....or just business in general. As I am no where near as idealistically/emotionally invested in this arguement I am going go complete table this discussion and allow you to get back to making the protest signs for your next rally.

You are obviously entrenched in your "rage against the machine", tea-party type position against the NFL....or just business in general. As I am no where near as idealistically/emotionally invested in this arguement I am going go complete table this discussion and allow you to get back to making the protest signs for your next rally.

It's not even like that and how you can't understand that is beyond me. It seems like the following mentality is being used as a basis on this arguement, "OH, YOU DON"T SUPPORT BUSINESSES THEN YOU MUST BE SOCIALIST COMMUNIST!!", hence your ill advised tea party comment.

I think I've been very fair in this ordeal and I've stated my beefs with the people posting in favor of the owners. You continue to use your jobs/employees/business as a example to what's going on. It's mind boggling why people can't grasp that simple concept. It's not your business, they aren't replaceable employees, they are the product just like any movie star or music artist out there.

Had the players walked out on the CBA agreement they made back in 2006, I'd be siding with the owners on this. As it stands, I'm not.

Also, I"m not "emotionally" invested in any of this. I could care less if the NFL folded as it's not what drives me in life nor is it something I couldn't live without. Would I be bummed if it did? Sure. We are having a debate in regards to the politics/finances of this situation and I'm speaking my mind regardless if we agree or not. It's just a bit annoying when apples are being compared to oranges though.

Peace.

I just don't see the arguements people are making for the players. Sorry.

Players can't be replaced? Sorry, not a good arguement.... McNabb was replaced in Philli, Coach's get repaced all the time. Portis has been replaced, and S.Moss might be this year. The question is will the talent level be the same or will it get worse. Monitarily it might not be in the best decision, but players are cut or traded all the time.

Monopolies? I would accept this arguement had it been a few yrs ago, or if the NFL filed suit against any other football leagues, but they are not. The CFL is doing fine, There was a European League but they folded, the UFL has been running for how long now? No there is no monopolies. I'm just guessing but if all the players decided not to come back and decided to turn to the UFL, they might not get the money they had in the NFL but they would have jobs, and they would get some form of pay and I'm betting that after a few yrs they might also have paychecks close to what they are getting now. Because the fans would follow the players just to watch their favorite player play. So merchandise sales would go up for those teams enabling them to pay the players more. The NFL is not the "only" football league out there thus no monopoly. Yes they pay better then the rest but they are not the only one.

Showing of the books? The biggest arguement here is "if the owners are taking a loss then they should just open their books." I think it's easier to show then simply opening the books.... is your house worth as much as it was 5 yrs ago? I gaurantee not. If you own a business is it worth as much as it was 5 yrs ago, and have you not made less then 5 yrs ago? I'm not saying your not making money, I'm asking are you making as much or more then 5 yrs ago? Why do I ask? because the economy has tanked if you haven't known it. People are losing their homes because they can't sell them to pay off their loans. So your going to tell me that people are of the mind set to think "F- my house, but I'll pay for my season tickets"? "hey I can't make my mortgage payment, but I'm going to purchase a Jersay"? "hey I can't pay my bills but I'm going to load up on the food and beer at the park today"? I don't think so. I can tell you there is no way any of you will change my mind and make me believe the owners have not been taking in less money. Are they hurting? no, but the owners are taking in less money which effects their revenue sharing. Gas prices have gone up so I'm also sure the cost of flying players to other locations costs more now. Say all you want about the NFL being a money machine but the money machine needs funds to operate. See the Gov. was in a similar situation, ask the employees to take a pay cut, or shut down for 30 days? How they could say they don't have the money one day then the next say ok everything is fine is baffling. Somewhere they robbed Peter to pay Paul. Hopefully the NFL does not find itself in a similar situation. Players not giving the 1 billion to the owners and later the owners having to either move teams to better markets so the owners will not have to share as much with each other or shut down because they simply can't afford to keep operating.

Wow, this sounds like what I said... almost....

Vindicated by labor fight, Ralph Wilson isn’t gloating | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/15/vindicated-by-labor-fight-ralph-wilson-isnt-gloating/)

“It’s very difficult,” Wilson tells Myers of the Bills’ financial performance. “We’ve had a tough time. We’ve hung in there. Buffalo has lost population and it’s a tough go. When I came in the league, it was the 14th largest city in the league. All the corporations moved out of Buffalo. We’re doing alright. We will make it, but it’s not easy.”


It's exactly what I keep saying, fans think of the Skins and Cowboys and say the owners are making money hand over fist. Yeah your right. But what about the smaller markets? Those that have lost the fan base like Jacksonville, Carolina, Buffalo? Less income to the good markets mean less money to the bad markets. All the owners are trying to do is make sure the money is there for the teams, the fans have a team to watch, and the players have jobs.

Funny that someone else started a thread like this. Sorry it's from a rival site though....

Season Ticket Renewals (http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?344991-Season-Ticket-Renewals)

I don't doubt that any of the season seats given up won't be refilled but think of the smaller markets where it might be harder to find fans to refill seats. Who knows with how bad the economy is maybe the Skins have trouble filling all of them back up.

Guys guys. Super serious question. Who smiles less. Kristen Stewart or DeMaurice Smith or Mike Shanahan?
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ5Swgu2fu1J9s19JdZFsAq_FE0XOC4j Dybx4CCrZYyghhk9mmr VS http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgyX8cmabHicWnUH91nI20t6Zpi_3UB Ar5JkkaWGrwr8PP1XbDVS http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRU1nJS3F2CS_Mw9jgZp3UJkRAysHLcX OtaGar9VZx-Q-ih46-u3g

I just don't see the arguements people are making for the players. Sorry.

Players can't be replaced? Sorry, not a good arguement.... McNabb was replaced in Philli, Coach's get repaced all the time. Portis has been replaced, and S.Moss might be this year. The question is will the talent level be the same or will it get worse. Monitarily it might not be in the best decision, but players are cut or traded all the time.

Monopolies? I would accept this arguement had it been a few yrs ago, or if the NFL filed suit against any other football leagues, but they are not. The CFL is doing fine, There was a European League but they folded, the UFL has been running for how long now? No there is no monopolies. I'm just guessing but if all the players decided not to come back and decided to turn to the UFL, they might not get the money they had in the NFL but they would have jobs, and they would get some form of pay and I'm betting that after a few yrs they might also have paychecks close to what they are getting now. Because the fans would follow the players just to watch their favorite player play. So merchandise sales would go up for those teams enabling them to pay the players more. The NFL is not the "only" football league out there thus no monopoly. Yes they pay better then the rest but they are not the only one.

Showing of the books? The biggest arguement here is "if the owners are taking a loss then they should just open their books." I think it's easier to show then simply opening the books.... is your house worth as much as it was 5 yrs ago? I gaurantee not. If you own a business is it worth as much as it was 5 yrs ago, and have you not made less then 5 yrs ago? I'm not saying your not making money, I'm asking are you making as much or more then 5 yrs ago? Why do I ask? because the economy has tanked if you haven't known it. People are losing their homes because they can't sell them to pay off their loans. So your going to tell me that people are of the mind set to think "F- my house, but I'll pay for my season tickets"? "hey I can't make my mortgage payment, but I'm going to purchase a Jersay"? "hey I can't pay my bills but I'm going to load up on the food and beer at the park today"? I don't think so. I can tell you there is no way any of you will change my mind and make me believe the owners have not been taking in less money. Are they hurting? no, but the owners are taking in less money which effects their revenue sharing. Gas prices have gone up so I'm also sure the cost of flying players to other locations costs more now. Say all you want about the NFL being a money machine but the money machine needs funds to operate. See the Gov. was in a similar situation, ask the employees to take a pay cut, or shut down for 30 days? How they could say they don't have the money one day then the next say ok everything is fine is baffling. Somewhere they robbed Peter to pay Paul. Hopefully the NFL does not find itself in a similar situation. Players not giving the 1 billion to the owners and later the owners having to either move teams to better markets so the owners will not have to share as much with each other or shut down because they simply can't afford to keep operating.

It is not a matter of just being a monopoly or not. Just being a monopoly is not going to get the firms up into the courts. Some firms are monopolies because "of the nature of the beast"

It is the act of monopolizing the relevant market. The firm(s) have to do an active act in order to get a case against them in antitrust. Many pages are spent just defining the market-. For the NFL to get slammed for antitrust they need to be doing an act in which they try to create a barrier to entry or price fixing, etc.

Even though the NFL is not a monopoly per se, it has certainly market share and market power. The NFL is a dominant firm with a compeititive fringe.