Rumor from Denver

Some of us older fans have seen it thought. Sonny Jurgensen, Billy Kilmer, *Joe Theismann- hired to be the KR and became starting QB, Doug Williams. I stop there because honestly the rest through the Gibbs era seemed dumber then a box of rocks but Gibbs was able to work with them. Rypien and Schroeder never struck me as being the brightest crayon in the box.

I'm not sure if the rest were simply in the wrong scheme at the wrong time or just were second string QB's. Brad Johnson was not bad but he was past his prime when we picked him up.

I have heard that MS is infatuated with several QB's not just any single one. My issue is not the fact that the HC might have some one in mind as the future franchise QB of this team but the fact of throwing all our eggs in one basket to get one player, no matter what position they play.

My second issue is I obviously like Dalton and Ponder more then the rest so seeing you claiming MS is infatuated with Gabbert or commenting on the team throwing picks to move up just to get him set me off. :) Sorry. If MS has a specific player in mind at QB and thinks we need to jump to get him then by all means I'm for it. Whether it's Locker, Gabbert, or whoever. I hope they don't and do a better job of trying to move back to get more picks but if not so be it. Because honestly I could see more then 3 teams going after a QB.

Panthers
Buffalo
Bengals
Cardinals
49ers
Titans
Redskins.

I doubt they all go after QB's in the first round but if they have eyes on one QB and he falls to them I could see them picking one.

I am 39...I remember all those Redskins QB's...Thiesman was my favorite player ever. He was a franchise QB but by the time he got great a couplpe years later he was done.

I never said I or Shanny was infatuated with any QB...i was dealing in hypothetical terms. Personally...I am not a Gabbert fan at all!

Fair enough. I think I understand what you are saying - if Shanny absolutley loves someone and can get him, then he should do so. I just think, despite possible Shanny love, we have too many holes to go chasing rookie QB's in the draft given the inherent risks and the historical lack of success for teams doing so. We simply disagree as to the advisability of trading up and I am good with that.

Your comment: "Obviously there are many ways to get one and the scenario that most teams seem to have used is getting lucky." I thought particularly insightful. It really sums up my team by team analysis pretty well. Lots of teams have traded up and failed, traded down and failed, or stuck to their guns and failed.

Hopefully, one of these days, we get "The Guy" - an era defining QB who's name is linked to Championships. Of course, we did have one of those - Unfortunately for us, it was Sammy Baugh.

As to this draft, my preference would be to pull something off like what the Ravens did to get Flacco. If a good QB that Shanny likes is there at 10, however, by all means grab him.

Thank you for taking the time to understand what I am saying. So many people on here read one sentence of your posts and then fire off responses that have nothing to do with what you said. A couple pages after i said I would consider trading up if i knew for a fact that shanny loved a particular QB...it has been twisted into me having a man crush on Gabbert and preparing to throw our next 5 years of draft picks at him.

And I will say it again it was hypothetical...I don't even like Gabbert or Newton...I like Locker who does not even require a trade up at all.

A couple things...we did win without great QB's in the past but it was a different league then. There was no free agency and it was possible to build truely great teams and keep them together which we did. We also had the greatest coach in NFL history then. I believe in todays NFL more then ever the consistent winners are the teams that have great QB's. Just look at the recent Super Bowl winners...almost all of them have a franchise QB. ...

I will have my analysis of all 45 Super Bowl winning QB's, how they were acquired, and the status of the various teams at the time of acquisition.

Cliff Notes Version: If a team traded up in the draft to acquire the QB, the QB ultimately performed below expectations.:silly:

Thank you for taking the time to understand what I am saying. So many people on here read one sentence of your posts and then fire off responses that have nothing to do with what you said. A couple pages after i said I would consider trading up if i knew for a fact that shanny loved a particular QB...it has been twisted into me having a man crush on Gabbert and preparing to throw our next 5 years of draft picks at him.

Well, I have been known to make a post or two that require the reader to do more than read one sentence - I figure I should try to return the courtesy.

I will have my analysis of all 45 Super Bowl winning QB's, how they were acquired, and the status of the various teams at the time of acquisition.

Cliff Notes Version: If a team traded up in the draft to acquire the QB, the QB ultimately performed below expectations.:silly:

haha...save the trouble all 45 are not needed! I said my theory is that the QB is more important recently...say since free agency started. Basically every super bowl winning QB since Aikman can be in the study. Since then with few exceptions you need a franchise QB to win a Super bowl.

Here's the data:
Super Bowl 27. Troy Aikman (MVP), 4 TDs
Super Bowl 28. Troy Aikman (Emmitt Smith), O TDs
Super Bowl 29. Steve Young (MVP), 6 TDs
Super Bowl 30. Troy Aikman (Larry Brown), 1 TD
Super Bowl 31. Brett Favre (Desmond Howard), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 32. John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs

All but 2 SB winning QB's since free agency started were franchise QB's. And the 2 exceptions(Johnson & Dilfer) had ALL TIME great defenses. We can argue about how to get one whether it's waiting and hoping or being aggressive...but the main point to remember is that we are not winning a Super Bowl until we find one.

I will have my analysis of all 45 Super Bowl winning QB's, how they were acquired, and the status of the various teams at the time of acquisition.

Cliff Notes Version: If a team traded up in the draft to acquire the QB, the QB ultimately performed below expectations.:silly:

I assume you are in between jobs...or you have GTripp held captive in the WP Tread Hell Cells??

haha...save the trouble all 45 are not needed! I said my theory is that the QB is more important recently...say since free agency started. Basically every super bowl winning QB since Aikman can be in the study. Since then with few exceptions you need a franchise QB to win a Super bowl.

Actually that wouldn't add to many to those already done:

Elway (Denver 1998, 99): The only modern era "trade-up" that worked to land a elite QB. The anti-Ryan Leaf.

Warner (Rams 2000): In the "lightning strikes" category with Brady.

Trent Dilfer (Ravens 2001): The exception to the rule that you need a franchise QB.

Brady (NE 2002, 04, 05).

Brad Johnson (T Bay 2003): UFA pick-up (from us of course) - Do you consider him a "franchise" QB?

Roethlesburger (Pitt 2006, 09).

P. Manning (Colts 2007).

E. Manning (NYG 2008).

Brees (NO 2010).

Rodgers (G. Bay 2011).

ON THE OTHER HAND, if you look at the teams that made it to the SB but lost, your QB's seem to become much more non-descript: Chris Chandler (Atl), Kerry Collins (NYG 01), Gannon (Oak 03), Delhomme (Carolina 04), Grossman (Chi 07). [At the same time, "franchise" QB's lost (Donovan, McNair, Hasselback) and some won and lost (Farve, P. Manning, Warner, Brady).]

ALL OF THIS SAYS TO ME:
(1) Getting a "Franchise" QB is simply is mostly a matter of luck - so, build a solid team & do things that increase the odds for "luck" to happen ; and
(2) Having a true "Franchise" QB is close to a prerequisite for winning the SB (though not necessarily for just appearing in one).

AND - Whatever you do, never ever ever trade up in the draft for a QB unless his name is John Elway.:food-smil

I assume you are in between jobs...or you have GTripp held captive in the WP Tread Hell Cells??

Naw... I am just one of those lazy government workers that firstdown complains of all the time. After this, I am taking the afternoon off -'cause I can. muhahahahaaaa.

Here's the data:

Super Bowl 27. Troy Aikman (MVP), 4 TDs
Super Bowl 28. Troy Aikman (Emmitt Smith), O TDs
Super Bowl 29. Steve Young (MVP), 6 TDs
Super Bowl 30. Troy Aikman (Larry Brown), 1 TD
Super Bowl 31. Brett Favre (Desmond Howard), 2 TDs
...

All but 2 SB winning QB's since free agency started were franchise QB's. And the 2 exceptions(Johnson & Dilfer) had ALL TIME great defenses. We can argue about how to get one whether it's waiting and hoping or being aggressive...but the main point to remember is that we are not winning a Super Bowl until we find one.

Hadn't done Aikman, Young or Farve in previous post. Just as they lend credence to your "you need a Franchise QB to win the SB" position, I would argue that the nature of their acquisitions lends credence to my "Fine, but don't go chasing rookie QB's in the draft" argument.

Also, except for Kelly against Aikman in 1993, their opposing SB QB's support the idea that you can get to the SB with a more average QB - Humphries (SD 1994); Neil O'Donnell (Pitt. 95); Bledsoe (NE 96).

Hadn't done Aikman, Young or Farve in previous post. Just as they lend credence to your "you need a Franchise QB to win the SB" position, I would argue that the nature of their acquisitions lends credence to my "Fine, but don't go chasing rookie QB's in the draft" argument.

Also, except for Kelly against Aikman in 1993, their opposing SB QB's support the idea that you can get to the SB with a more average QB - Humphries (SD 1994); Neil O'Donnell (Pitt. 95); Bledsoe (NE 96).

Favre was a trade in which they paid more then his original draft position...could be labled as chasing him.

In general i agree that in most instances you shouldn't trade up for QB's...but I still maintain that if Shanny had a QB in mind that he felt strongly was a franchise QB I would do it. I don't just mean the guy he likes the best in a particualr draft...I mean he absolutelty loves the guy...one of the best he's seen in years blah blah blah. Basically the way he admitted feeling about Bradford last year after the draft. If that situation happened again I would be aggressive and make it happen. Thats all I am saying...