Is it finally time to rebuild??

Well my post wasn't about older players specifically but the "careless" way the FO has used draft picks in general. Notice Carriker is not on there several other's like Eathan Albright...

The ones I listed are stand outs for pissing away draft picks.

Cooley love him, great TE but honestly don't need to spend 2 picks on a TE, there are highly comparable TE's drafted with ONE pick... Not putting Cooley down but he's not Antonio Gates.

Portis, if anything a smart GM would have asked for a pick back from Denver... throwing a pick in there was sheer stupidity MAYBE... Shut down corners are and were a much more valuable comodity than Mike Shanahan running backs... He's a good redskin and nothing against portis but they overpaid.

Campbell... we overpaid and even at the time the pick was considered a "reach" and "risky".

And so on... the point isn't ... oh hell the point doesn't need to be anything but this:

we used 19 draft picks to get Cooley, Portis, an average inside LB and MAYBE McNabb for a couple years, and Brown for 3 more games MAYBE more...

19 picks for 5-ish players

Well my post wasn't about older players specifically but the "careless" way the FO has used draft picks in general. Notice Carriker is not on there several other's like Eathan Albright...

The ones I listed are stand outs for pissing away draft picks.

Cooley love him, great TE but honestly don't need to spend 2 picks on a TE, there are highly comparable TE's drafted with ONE pick... Not putting Cooley down but he's not Antonio Gates.

Portis, if anything a smart GM would have asked for a pick back from Denver... throwing a pick in there was sheer stupidity MAYBE... Shut down corners are and were a much more valuable comodity than Mike Shanahan running backs... He's a good redskin and nothing against portis but they overpaid.

Campbell... we overpaid and even at the time the pick was considered a "reach" and "risky".

And so on... the point isn't ... oh hell the point doesn't need to be anything but this:

we used 19 draft picks to get Cooley, Portis, an average inside LB and MAYBE McNabb for a couple years, and Brown for 3 more games MAYBE more...

19 picks for 5-ish players


I think that's what separates a front office that has a great scouting team and great GM. We have gotten some good players (Sean Taylor RIP, Clinton Portis, Chris Cooley, Santana Moss, Brian Orakpo, etc...) we do tend to pay dearly to get the players we want, which means having to sacrifice down the road instead of adding to.

I think Bruce Allen is what the Redskins need in order to not give the farm and all of the hen houses away for one or two franchise players, but I think the 'skins still need a Bobby Beathard type to find the diamonds in the rough, something I'm not so sure Allen knows how to do.

Well my post wasn't about older players specifically but the "careless" way the FO has used draft picks in general. Notice Carriker is not on there several other's like Eathan Albright...

The ones I listed are stand outs for pissing away draft picks.

Cooley love him, great TE but honestly don't need to spend 2 picks on a TE, there are highly comparable TE's drafted with ONE pick... Not putting Cooley down but he's not Antonio Gates.

Portis, if anything a smart GM would have asked for a pick back from Denver... throwing a pick in there was sheer stupidity MAYBE... Shut down corners are and were a much more valuable comodity than Mike Shanahan running backs... He's a good redskin and nothing against portis but they overpaid.

Campbell... we overpaid and even at the time the pick was considered a "reach" and "risky".

And so on... the point isn't ... oh hell the point doesn't need to be anything but this:

we used 19 draft picks to get Cooley, Portis, an average inside LB and MAYBE McNabb for a couple years, and Brown for 3 more games MAYBE more...

19 picks for 5-ish players

Yeah, you summed it up perfectly. That's just plain bad. Real bad. What sucks is that the top teams in the league do it just the opposite, but this team stayed with it year after year, hoping one day it would work. Oh well, I do think Snyder has learned the lesson.

I mentioned this in another thread, but the guy I'm looking at more and more is Rocky McIntosh. Talk about falling all over yourself to get a guy that has been nothing but mediocre. For a Ray Lewis-Brian Urlacher-Patrick Willis type guy, fine, do what you have to do. Maybe. But Rocky McIntosh? Ugh.

We are rebuilding.
Shanahan and Haslett implemented their systems and they are making players run it. We are not going to have 8 new starters on defense next year so it's in our best interest to make the players learn the system now and incorporate new complimentary players in the upcoming drafts. Realistically, you can only do so much with a draft. We would be lucky if we drafted 3 players that start next year when we probably need 10 new players.

Trading draft picks for older players (over 30) has happened much much much less frequently than we fans seem to want to think it has. Aside from McNabb, how many times have we done that in recent years? I'm sure there have been a couple other times, but I really can't think of them

Correct

Mark Brunell - back to 04
Jason Taylor
Pete Kendall

What exactly is rebuilding and how long is it supposed to take? The idea of a multi-year rebuilding process just doesnt fly in today's win now NFL. The problem is that while the Skins are rebuilding everyone else is working on getting better also so they are trying to hit a moving target. The Skins are so far behind they might never really catch up. The thing that worries me is that the Skins are the new Detroit, and we all know how long Detroit has been rebuilding, re-organizing, or whatever one want to call it.

We have NOT tried to rebuild yet. A lot of people equate losing to rebuilding. Just because we suck doesn’t mean we’re rebuilding. We’re still giving up draft picks for 34 year old players. That is not rebuilding – that’s saying we want to win now. If you want to pick up some veteran FA’s. Fine. If you are trading for them, sacrificing young future players for the team, you’re still trying to win.
I’m ready to break the core of this team apart. See what we can get some value for, turn to the younger players. Start building a new attitude in DC. Not saying trade away everyone. But keep age in mind. Anyone over the age of 27/28 should be expendable, for the right price.

This is exactly what I meant. Sure, every year every team tries to get younger. BUT rebuilding means that you (1) keep your draft picks, and (2) trade away older core great players to get more picks or younger players. Just like NE trading Randy Moss - good player but the 3rd round pick is more valuable to the team in the long-term. Brilliant.

For us, it'd be any of these guys:
- Cooley
- S.Moss
- C. Rogers
- A.Carter

These are great players but -- how would they help us in the next 3 years? They'd all be older than 31-32 by then, and past their primes. Better to have a younger player that can be around for 10 years.

That is what I meant about rebuilding. Again, I'm not sure we're going to do it. If we get lucky with picks and trades, we can put together a good team each year. But rebuilding has the potential to make a great team for a decade, like NE/Ravens/etc.

I guess someone needs to slap a big sign on the front of Redskins Park that says we are rebuilding to make everyone happy.

There was only so much rebuilding that could be done last year with limited picks and a limited FA pool. That said they still turned over 1/3 of the roster and the changes next year should only continue.


Matty:

You are absolutely right! The only way to rebuild more quickly is to have stockpiled draft picks - - like the Bucs did - - and then to spend the time and $$$ on the scouting department to get the draft right - - which the Skins have never done since the Bobby Beathard days.


How many picks do the Skins have next year? I believe the Pats have 11...

Matty:

You are absolutely right! The only way to rebuild more quickly is to have stockpiled draft picks - - like the Bucs did - - and then to spend the time and $$$ on the scouting department to get the draft right - - which the Skins have never done since the Bobby Beathard days.


How many picks do the Skins have next year? I believe the Pats have 11...

Bobby Beathard's Redskins drafted a lot of duds in the mid to late rounds. A lot. Not to mention regularly traded out of the first round. But he did do a good job of putting the team in a position on draft day to afford to make countless mistakes. We haven't really put ourselves in that position recently.

Trading draft picks for older players (over 30) has happened much much much less frequently than we fans seem to want to think it has. Aside from McNabb, how many times have we done that in recent years? I'm sure there have been a couple other times, but I really can't think of themThe FO traded picks for aging Mark Brunell and Pete Kendall, both of whom may have been released, where the Skins could have then picked them up for nothing. Draft picks were also involved in deals to acquire Portis, Duckett, Lloyd, and Jason Taylor, in addition to McNabb and Jamaal Brown last offseason. If the Patriots are the gold standard for building great teams through the draft, the Skins' methods for the last 12 years should be a cautionary example of how to stay mediocre in today's NFL.