It's Talent, Not Coaching.

I do think at this point you have to seriously question the talent on the defense. Rak is the only long term keeper in the front 7. Fletcher can still play so for a short term option he's a keeper as well. Other than that the talent and depth is paper thin.

We've run plenty of 4-3 looks this year and still manage to stink up the joint, so I think the scheme argument has to take a backseat to the talent argument.

I think Carter is good.. He's a bit older and not really long term... But he's being seriously misused right now.. Didn't he struggle with playing LB in the 3-4 on his previous teams as well?

I don't understand the Redskins, it seems like we've been running in place for years. Never moving forward. We did a little upgrading on the line, got a little depth and now the D is screwing it up. (The o-line is still screwing it up but... At least we know what we really need... a C and a RT) But seriously. What is the missing piece already?

And it just isn't possible that many of the guys who performed well last year are aging, having a down year, maybe lost a step or two and were bound to begin a decline at some point anyway. Impossible, right?

Matty said it earlier -- outside of Brian Orakpo and perhaps Lorenzo Alexander, who else among the front seven gives us much hope long term? Who?

Andre Carter? -- he's had an up and down career
Philip Daniels? -- seriously, how the guy has lasted this long is miraculous
Kedric Golston? -- showed promise early, had been going downhill (even in the 4-3)
Adam Carriker? -- ho-hum
Ma'ake Kemoeatu? -- total bust, but what did we expect?
London Fletcher? -- complete stud, but only a year or two left
Chris Wilson? -- situational pass rusher, basically non-existent
H.B. Blades? -- special teamer, nothing more
Rocky McIntosh? -- Our top pick in '06; traded down to grab him, giving away a 2nd the following year, and what do we really have with this guy?

Then there's Vonnie Holliday and Anthony Bryant. Yikes.

And among these guys, there are still those who say that all we have to do is line them up differently and all will be right with the world? Please.

I think Carter is good.. He's a bit older and not really long term... But he's being seriously misused right now.. Didn't he struggle with playing LB in the 3-4 on his previous teams as well?

I don't understand the Redskins, it seems like we've been running in place for years. Never moving forward. We did a little upgrading on the line, got a little depth and now the D is screwing it up. (The o-line is still screwing it up but... At least we know what we really need... a C and a RT) But seriously. What is the missing piece already?

He left San Fran precisely because he couldn't get it down there. He was reportedly more comfortable learning the scheme here, but even so, his instincts/skillset, such as playing in space, showed themselves to be terrible, which is death for a LB.

I believe that C is fine with Lich and Monty. What we need are two true guards. I'm sick of having converted centers playing guard.

He left San Fran precisely because he couldn't get it down there. He was reportedly more comfortable learning the scheme here, but even so, his instincts/skillset, such as playing in space, showed themselves to be terrible, which is death for a LB.

I believe that C is fine with Lich and Monty. What we need are two true guards. I'm sick of having converted centers playing guard.

As long as it isn't Rabach under Center. Ugh God, don't even get me started. :Smoker:

And it just isn't possible that many of the guys who performed well last year are aging, having a down year, maybe lost a step or two and were bound to begin a decline at some point anyway. Impossible, right?

Matty said it earlier -- outside of Brian Orakpo and perhaps Lorenzo Alexander, who else among the front seven gives us much hope long term? Who?

Andre Carter? -- he's had an up and down career
Philip Daniels? -- seriously, how the guy has lasted this long is miraculous
Kedric Golston? -- showed promise early, had been going downhill (even in the 4-3)
Adam Carriker? -- ho-hum
Ma'ake Kemoeatu? -- total bust, but what did we expect?
London Fletcher? -- complete stud, but only a year or two left
Chris Wilson? -- situational pass rusher, basically non-existent
H.B. Blades? -- special teamer, nothing more
Rocky McIntosh? -- Our top pick in '06; traded down to grab him, giving away a 2nd the following year, and what do we really have with this guy?

Then there's Vonnie Holliday and Anthony Bryant. Yikes.

And among these guys, there are still those who say that all we have to do is line them up differently and all will be right with the world? Please.
Conveniently ignoring the already-cited fact that Buffalo is performing far better now that they've ditched the 3-4. BTW, that supposedly horrid Bills D only coughed up 20.4 per game(slightly better than us) despite being prone to absolute dud games.

You're confusing long term potential with short-term performance. Just because guys like Fletch isn't going to be giving much years down the road doesn't mean that they can't play now. Also, some of the moves would have never even be considered if the 3-4 switch did not happen. Kemo, Bryant, Carriker, and Holliday would not even be here. We would have been debating which 4-3 SOLB candidates to grab in the draft or FA this past offseason.

Carriker is the only one who fits the 3-4 to a T and is proven to have failed in a 4-3.

The Bills didn't ditch the 3-4. They just have some more 4-3 sets because of injuries. But they're still basically a 3-4

Conveniently ignoring the already-cited fact that Buffalo is performing far better now that they've ditched the 3-4. BTW, that supposedly horrid Bills D only coughed up 20.4 per game(slightly better than us) despite being prone to absolute dud games.

You're confusing long term potential with short-term performance. Just because guys like Fletch isn't going to be giving much years down the road doesn't mean that they can't play now. Also, some of the moves would have never even be considered if the 3-4 switch did not happen. Kemo, Bryant, Carriker, and Holliday would not even be here. We would have been debating which 4-3 SOLB candidates to grab in the draft or FA this past offseason.

Carriker is the only one who fits the 3-4 to a T and is proven to have failed in a 4-3.

I must have forgotten the rule which states that whatever works for the Buffalo Bills will naturally work for the Redskins.

What on earth are you watching that leads you to believe these guys can play effectively now after what we've seen all year? What were you doing this Sunday at 1pm? Did you actually watch the game?

Also, some of the moves would have never even be considered if the 3-4 switch did not happen. Kemo, Bryant, Carriker, and Holliday would not even be here. We would have been debating which 4-3 SOLB candidates to grab in the draft or FA this past offseason.

And which players from last year would be giving us All-Pro performances if only they had stayed in a 4-3? Golston and Haynesworth? Andre Carter, Rocky McIntosh, -- oh yeah, we'd be a "top ten defense" at this very moment if Shanny hadn't come along and screwed everything up, right?

It's also a fact that they are still using the 4-3. Which is why it's a fact that if Haslett had never been hired, and if the same scheme had been carried over from last year, we'd be in exactly the same horrific situation.

Can't totally let Shanny off the hook. The lunacy surrounding the McNabb incident is enough to have doubts about this guy. Not saying he isn't a good coach, but he isn't infallible. Remember, this guy hasn't won squat since Elway retired, and he had loads of talent in Denver since then, in the weakest division in the NFL no doubt.

I must have forgotten the rule which states that whatever works for the Buffalo Bills will naturally work for the Redskins.

What on earth are you watching that leads you to believe these guys can play effectively now after what we've seen all year? What were you doing this Sunday at 1pm? Did you actually watch the game?



And which players from last year would be giving us All-Pro performances if only they had stayed in a 4-3? Golston and Haynesworth? Andre Carter, Rocky McIntosh, -- oh yeah, we'd be a "top ten defense" at this very moment if Shanny hadn't come along and screwed everything up, right?

It's also a fact that they are still using the 4-3. Which is why it's a fact that if Haslett had never been hired, and if the same scheme had been carried over from last year, we'd be in exactly the same horrific situation.Yeah, because Football Outsider's stats are just as bad as regular ones. :rolleyes:

They're still using a 4-3? They may be using fronts with 4 men with the nickel package, but they never ever have use 4 down linemen. And you think someone else is going to be exactly the same as Blache scheme-wise?

It's common knowledge that the 3-4 needs a NT to work. The NT has a very specific role that 4-3 DTs do not perform. Our NTs sucking makes EVERYONE ELSE look worse because the 3-4 is that dependent on having NT. You seem to suffer from perceiving everyone is sucking worse than they actually are precisely because of this.