It's Talent, Not Coaching.

I do think at this point you have to seriously question the talent on the defense. Rak is the only long term keeper in the front 7. Fletcher can still play so for a short term option he's a keeper as well. Other than that the talent and depth is paper thin.

We've run plenty of 4-3 looks this year and still manage to stink up the joint, so I think the scheme argument has to take a backseat to the talent argument.

I think that's a good point: it's not like the 'skins are running a pure 3-4 every single down.

I also think the increased turnovers should be mentioned. If the defense hadn't played with this aggressive approach, I'm not sure the 'skins are even at 4 wins this year.

Gentlemen,
Bottom line...talent or coaching..chicken or the egg...or both.
I can not help but feel that if we had brought in a real stud defensive coordinator like a GWilliams or a Rex Ryan in last summer instead of Hasslets we would not be LAST in the NFL in defense ranking. You agree?
As you can tell from the day they announced his hiring, I have never been a Hasslett fan.
We are a premiere franchise in the NFL, we can do better than Hasslett.
Just saying.

Maybe... but I'm pretty sure we would still be 5-7.

We have two brilliant offensive minds on the offensive side, but that hasn't helped.

Our problem is talent.

Maybe... but I'm pretty sure we would still be 5-7.

We have two brilliant offensive minds on the offensive side, but that hasn't helped.

Our problem is talent.

My problem is not the 5-7 record, after all we were crap last season, especially on offense. My problem is our defense is not improving and is getting worse.
I will gladly concede 100% that the problem on offense is talent, especially on the O-line, RB and Wr. I have no problem with the Shanahan's when it comes to coaching the offense.
On defense, we have enough talent to be .500 team and our defense should play and be ranked in the middle to upper half of the NFL, not the bottom.
Hasslett is not getting everything he can from this defense.
We can agree to disagree.

My problem is not the 5-7 record, after all we were crap last season, especially on offense. My problem is our defense is not improving and is getting worse.
I will gladly concede 100% that the problem on offense is talent, especially on the O-line, RB and Wr. I have no problem with the Shanahan's when it comes to coaching the offense.
On defense, we have enough talent to be .500 team and our defense should play and be ranked in the middle to upper half of the NFL, not the bottom.
Hasslett is not getting everything he can from this defense.
We can agree to disagree.

Well when the D is crap from the start and then you loose a few starters then it gets even crapper. They might not have been a great D but they where the starters for a reason.

Well when the D is crap from the start and then you loose a few starters then it gets even crapper. They might not have been a great D but they where the starters for a reason.

You are talking about the 10th ranked defense from 2009 that Haslett inherited? Crap? No. Average..yes.
They did not get crappy until Hasslett rode into town.
The coaches selected the starters. See where I am going?
Coaches also decided to sit their best interior defensive lineman to prove a point and they are still pushing AH's head in the shit this late in the season rather than trying to make peace.
Coaches decided to stick with Andre Carter as a starter inot the 3rd or 4th week of the season when they clearly saw in all of preseason he was not going to cut it at OLB in the 3-4.
Moved an OLB (Rocky) inside.
Just once, can I see Rocky moved back to OLB and move Lorenzo Alexander moved inside where Alexander's size and strength might slow down some of those long runs right up the gut of our defense? If not, why not? Because of our coach says so? Hhmmm?
But then again you guys say it is definitely not the coaches.

Gentlemen,
Bottom line...talent or coaching..chicken or the egg...or both.
I can not help but feel that if we had brought in a real stud defensive coordinator like a GWilliams or a Rex Ryan in last summer instead of Hasslets we would not be LAST in the NFL in defense ranking. You agree?
As you can tell from the day they announced his hiring, I have never been a Hasslett fan.
We are a premiere franchise in the NFL, we can do better than Hasslett.
Just saying.

According to who???? Market Value doesnt = Wins. We have sucked for so long that other teams in the NFL look at us like we look at cleveland (and really....who are WE to look down on ANYONE). Do we have Superbowls....yes. What have they done for us lately....or matter of fact...in the last 15 years!!!

According to who???? Market Value doesnt = Wins. We have sucked for so long that other teams in the NFL look at us like we look at cleveland (and really....who are WE to look down on ANYONE). Do we have Superbowls....yes. What have they done for us lately....or matter of fact...in the last 15 years!!!

We have the money to hire top coaches. We fired Gregg Williams and he went on to win a Superbowl last year. we hired Jim Zorn! Wow! Thanks Vinny.

According to who???? Market Value doesnt = Wins. We have sucked for so long that other teams in the NFL look at us like we look at cleveland (and really....who are WE to look down on ANYONE). Do we have Superbowls....yes. What have they done for us lately....or matter of fact...in the last 15 years!!!

Yeah, but wins alone doesn't make a team a premiere team necessarily. It's a very subjective matter, but I think the point that Defensewins was trying to make is that we are historic and relevant franchise, regardless of whether or not we win or lose. There's a reason that this franchise is one of the most valuable sports franchises on the planet; and that's what makes it premiere.

You are talking about the 10th ranked defense from 2009 that Haslett inherited? Crap? No. Average..yes.
They did not get crappy until Hasslett rode into town.
The coaches selected the starters. See where I am going?
Coaches also decided to sit their best interior defensive lineman to prove a point and they are still pushing AH's head in the shit this late in the season rather than trying to make peace.
Coaches decided to stick with Andre Carter as a starter inot the 3rd or 4th week of the season when they clearly saw in all of preseason he was not going to cut it at OLB in the 3-4.
Moved an OLB (Rocky) inside.
Just once, can I see Rocky moved back to OLB and move Lorenzo Alexander moved inside where Alexander's size and strength might slow down some of those long runs right up the gut of our defense? If not, why not? Because of our coach says so? Hhmmm?
But then again you guys say it is definitely not the coaches.

Even with the moves you propose, do you think the D would be radically different?

Obviously the coaches aren't absolved from all blame, but bottom line is we don't have the talent necessary to compete. The best coaching in the world isn't going to change that.

Even with the moves you propose, do you think the D would be radically different?

Obviously the coaches aren't absolved from all blame, but bottom line is we don't have the talent necessary to compete. The best coaching in the world isn't going to change that.

Even Football Outsiders more "advanced" stats has us in a freefall from last year as of 11/30/10.
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef)
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2009 DEFENSE EFFICIENCY RATINGS (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef2009)