It's Talent, Not Coaching.

I was referring to just McNabb and Brown. I'm quite aware they're upgrades for this season, and maybe for the next 3 seasons. However, after they leave or are rendered ineffective down the road, do we still feel the effect of these "phantom" upgrades. Nope. When a player leaves the team, any residual effect is minimal. Brown and McNabb fade away, leaving only those young guys, who I know will be here in the future.

How the hell did you even think I mean the entire aggregate of offensive additions, I cannot fathom. However, it's quite clear you're like an alcoholic. Addicted to the short-term "escape" from the hard reality. If not earlier, 3 years from now, you'll be wondering why the hell is Nate Allen with the Sheagles and is Pro Bowl S while we're still trying to find the next QB of the future. Allen, or anyone else we could have taken with the 2nd rounder year, could be the "cost" of obtaining McNabb and only having a QB upgrade for 3 season.

I still cannot fathom why the hell you brought the rest of them when I was just referring to McNabb and Brown as not worth the cost. Is Jared Veldheer that repugnant to you? Oakland runs a ZBS and he's already seeing action.

my bad, i didnt know i wasnt allowed to mention the long term young additions our FO did this past offseason in response to your statements that we only added old temporary bandaids.

i dont think one 2nd round pick is going to make or break the 2013 skins. the benefit and upgrade of mcnabb over campbell is worth a 2nd rounder to me, especially if you expect to compete in 2011 and 2012. i expect this team to be very competitive no later than 2012.

to answer your other question; a jason campbell behind this years O line plus veldheer would repugnate me this year and for years to come.

Campbell hasn't changed any in Oakland. I just think right now he has a better supporting cast at the moment than we do. It was just earlier this year that Campbell was stinking up the place and was benched. And he had plenty of jamarcus russell like days too.

He is just like he was here, passable one day, and horrible the next. The difference is is that Oakland has playmakers, and their defense can keep them in games, even with JC at QB...

I do think at this point you have to seriously question the talent on the defense. Rak is the only long term keeper in the front 7. Fletcher can still play so for a short term option he's a keeper as well. Other than that the talent and depth is paper thin.

We've run plenty of 4-3 looks this year and still manage to stink up the joint, so I think the scheme argument has to take a backseat to the talent argument.

Sure, the talent isn't where we'd want it to be. Again though, the drop-off from last year can't be explained through the talent alone. The point is, that there needs to be a thorough examination of both coaching and players on the defensive level.

my bad, i didnt know i wasnt allowed to mention the long term young additions our FO did this past offseason in response to your statements that we only added old temporary bandaids.

i dont think one 2nd round pick is going to make or break the 2013 skins. the benefit and upgrade of mcnabb over campbell is worth a 2nd rounder to me, especially if you expect to compete in 2011 and 2012. i expect this team to be very competitive no later than 2012.

to answer your other question; a jason campbell behind this years O line plus veldheer would repugnate me this year and for years to come.The young ones didn't have a cost except for the roster spot, did they? So why the hell did you bring them up when I was only talking about McNabb and Brown, aka the TRADES.

I'm sorry if you can't understand the simple concept that McNabb and Brown will be providing 0 utility to this team in three years while a whole host of players from the second round this year's draft will be to their respective teams long afterwards(5-10 years).

A rebuild means a complete forgoing of the present and imminent future for continued success in the longer term. McNabb will only benefit the team in the near future, but his supporting cast will not be improved sufficiently to get us to the Super Bowl, which is the only reasonable justification of trading away picks for a short-term solution. The FO did not commit to a true rebuild. They tried to win now and reload, and they are now accomplishing neither. McNabb will be 37 by the time you expect the O to "explode", and to expect him to be injury-free by then is dreaming at its finest.

Also, I support the move for trading Campbell. However, do realize that we could have coaxed even more out of Oakland if McNabb did not come here because there would be no "we're going to get rid him anyway" bargaining chip for Al Davis to play.

I want a QB who's either a young one with a really high ceiling or a damn good one in his prime, not a aging player who is likely going to retire in three years.

I'm not sure what made you think I wanted to keep JC. I have repeatedly stated that bombing this season with Rex was the way to go on here. We need to obtain players who are going to last a long time, and for the moment, practically only those types of players. Having a high draft position and a full load of high-round picks is the best way to go about that.
JC is 29 and too old for that. Besides, it's not like he was a lock to re-sign here.

The young ones didn't have a cost except for the roster spot, did they? So why the hell did you bring them up when I was only talking about McNabb and Brown, aka the TRADES.

Not sure you really made that clear from the get go

I'm sorry if you can't understand the simple concept that McNabb and Brown will be providing 0 utility to this team in three years while a whole host of players from the second round this year's draft will be to their respective teams long afterwards(5-10 years).

Debatable

A rebuild means a complete forgoing of the present and imminent future for continued success in the longer term. McNabb will only benefit the team in the near future, but his supporting cast will not be improved sufficiently to get us to the Super Bowl, which is the only reasonable justification of trading away picks for a short-term solution. The FO did not commit to a true rebuild. They tried to win now and reload, and they are now accomplishing neither. McNabb will be 37 by the time you expect the O to "explode", and to expect him to be injury-free by then is dreaming at its finest.

Redskins fans would never ever ever accept a complete dismantling and rebuild.

Also, I support the move for trading Campbell. However, do realize that we could have coaxed even more out of Oakland if McNabb did not come here because there would be no "we're going to get rid him anyway" bargaining chip for Al Davis to play.

Yeah well we actually got more for Campbell than people (including Oakland) were even offering before we got McNabb. No one wanted McNabb. Maybe it's because we were trying to move him for 18 months, but McNabb had little to nothing to do with it.

scp - i wasnt talking to you in my first post. you're the one who qouted me and said all the upgrades i listed were temporary. i wasnt talking directly to you so i dont understand how you can qoute me then continue to take this lil petty nick pick shots at me, inferring im stupid and analogizing me to an alcoholic.

you started qouting me, not the other way around. if you were talking just about mcnabb and brown, great. my original post was about the offseason additions as a whole without reference to you or any post you made in this thread. get off dez nutz son.

Redskins fans would never ever ever accept a complete dismantling and rebuild.

This is unfortunate, but correct.

Its not the coaching, the team has no talent and they are old. Orakpo, T. Williams and Landry are the only premier players. The rest of the O-Line is terrible and there is no depth. Same with the D-Line. Till you get good in the trenches it doesnt matter who your coach is. He is a hall of fame coach and his son led the best offense in the league last year, they did not all of a sudden turn into bad coaches. O-Lineman early in the draft, a change of pace tail back in the later rounds and find a tall receiver somewhere so we can have some size. Too many people act like we were Super Bowl favorites this year.

This team needs a youth movement. The oldest roster in the league has demonstrated it can't win at least eight games. Talent first, coaches second.

Gentlemen,
Bottom line...talent or coaching..chicken or the egg...or both.
I can not help but feel that if we had brought in a real stud defensive coordinator like a GWilliams or a Rex Ryan in last summer instead of Hasslets we would not be LAST in the NFL in defense ranking. You agree?
As you can tell from the day they announced his hiring, I have never been a Hasslett fan.
We are a premiere franchise in the NFL, we can do better than Hasslett.
Just saying.