It's Talent, Not Coaching.

I really think if this team concentrates on the offensive and defensive lines in the off-season, this will help the Redskins a lot more than anything else. What was the common ingredients of all of those great Redskins teams of the 80's? Solid offensive and defensive lines. Several different QBs and RBs in that decade.

I really hope this is what the FO focuses on in the off season!

Only temporarily and not enough to justify the cost. We're 28th in points scored, which is what really matters for offense. Shanahan always has had an eye for drafting offensive talent and finding offensive talent in UDFA. A higher draft pick is more important for a rebuild.

trent williams - rookie, cost us our 1st round draft pick
banks - free
torain - free
brown - a 3rd or 4th round pick
mcnabb - 2nd and 3/4th rounder
carriker - moved back 15-20 spots in 5th round

the moves were designed to upgrade this team. mcnabb upgraded the qb position for this season plus the next 2 years at a cost of a 2nd and 3 or 4th rounder. j brown could be a steal if he gets back to form/pro bowl and he if he stays he is going to lock down the RT spot for years to come. trent locks down the LT.

getting 2 spots on the O line locked down for years to come, one is hopefully going to be a stud LT, is progress and upgrade.

it sucks we dont have the talent at the DL or linebacker position, makke (sp?) has disappointed and AH is a disgruntled pos.

we need to add atleast 1 more O lineman with our 1 or 2 rounder. it sucks thomas, kelly didnt solidify our receiving corps, to have 3 2nd rounders and pretty much walk away with nothing just flat out sucks. wtf was vinny thinking overloading on that position when samuels, jansen, thomas, kendall all had 1 foot in the grave.

fact is we have upgraded our oline and qb. we just have so many holes and depth problems, they all cant be addressed in one offseason.

I agree w/the first half of this thread title - there is a lack of talent in many areas on this team. I disagree some w/the second part. The poor tackling has been an issue all year, at some point that falls on the coaches too. GW's & Blache's teams were good tacklers. GW was said to have always stressed that the db's had to tackle well if they wanted to play. The db's tackling has been poor all year. Guys like Hall will tackle well if they're put on the spot, I don't see that happening this year. Yesterday was the worst from the LBs too.

HOw much of it is poor coaching/leadership or just a deflated team morale, I don't know, but I do think the coaching on the defensive side of the ball is not up to par in some areas. I certainly agree though, that Haslett doesn't have the tools to carry out his assignment of a 3-4.

We also get a 5th or 6th from the Saints in 2011 for Brown

I agree w/the first half of this thread title - there is a lack of talent in many areas on this team. I disagree some w/the second part. The poor tackling has been an issue all year, at some point that falls on the coaches too. GW's & Blache's teams were good tacklers. GW was said to have always stressed that the db's had to tackle well if they wanted to play. The db's tackling has been poor all year. Guys like Hall will tackle well if they're put on the spot, I don't see that happening this year. Yesterday was the worst from the LBs too.

HOw much of it is poor coaching/leadership or just a deflated team morale, I don't know, but I do think the coaching on the defensive side of the ball is not up to par in some areas. I certainly agree though, that Haslett doesn't have the tools to carry out his assignment of a 3-4.

I think I heard yesterday going into yesterday's game we ranked 17th in the NFL with 30 missed tackles, Titans were #1 with 50

When Rocky whiffed on that first drive trying to tackle Jacobs...I had a bad feeling. It was so frustrating to see that performance yesterday almost exactly a year after a game (against the same Giants) that symbolized years of franchise ineptitude, only to see us put up such a sad effort once again. I'd like to think we can't get lower than that, but I thought the same thing in 2009

Well, I'm not buying what you're selling that everyone on the D simply sucks because of the players being oh so horrible, especially since a good deal of the defense sucking last year was because of LaRon Landry, who is our most improved player this year. Not only that, I've cited at three guys who have had at least some success in the 4-3 and now are falling like rocks thanks to the 3-4. The aspect of the D that has stayed mostly the same is the secondary outside of Landry. And anyone with a brain(i.e Spags) would have put LL in the strong safety role.

You can't have it both ways. There is AMPLE evidence of stud 4-3 players sucking in a 3-4 and vice versa.

Right. So all we have to do is get Orakpo, Haynesworth, Golston, and Carter back up at the front four, with McIntosh, Fletcher, and Blades or Wilson at linebacker -- then we can sit back and watch the magical defensive turn-around.

This team just isn't as good as you think it is.

trent williams - rookie, cost us our 1st round draft pick
banks - free
torain - free
brown - a 3rd or 4th round pick
mcnabb - 2nd and 3/4th rounder
carriker - moved back 15-20 spots in 5th round

the moves were designed to upgrade this team. mcnabb upgraded the qb position for this season plus the next 2 years at a cost of a 2nd and 3 or 4th rounder. j brown could be a steal if he gets back to form/pro bowl and he if he stays he is going to lock down the RT spot for years to come. trent locks down the LT.

getting 2 spots on the O line locked down for years to come, one is hopefully going to be a stud LT, is progress and upgrade.

it sucks we dont have the talent at the DL or linebacker position, makke (sp?) has disappointed and AH is a disgruntled pos.

we need to add atleast 1 more O lineman with our 1 or 2 rounder. it sucks thomas, kelly didnt solidify our receiving corps, to have 3 2nd rounders and pretty much walk away with nothing just flat out sucks. wtf was vinny thinking overloading on that position when samuels, jansen, thomas, kendall all had 1 foot in the grave.

fact is we have upgraded our oline and qb. we just have so many holes and depth problems, they all cant be addressed in one offseason.
I was referring to just McNabb and Brown. I'm quite aware they're upgrades for this season, and maybe for the next 3 seasons. However, after they leave or are rendered ineffective down the road, do we still feel the effect of these "phantom" upgrades. Nope. When a player leaves the team, any residual effect is minimal. Brown and McNabb fade away, leaving only those young guys, who I know will be here in the future.

How the hell did you even think I mean the entire aggregate of offensive additions, I cannot fathom. However, it's quite clear you're like an alcoholic. Addicted to the short-term "escape" from the hard reality. If not earlier, 3 years from now, you'll be wondering why the hell is Nate Allen with the Sheagles and is Pro Bowl S while we're still trying to find the next QB of the future. Allen, or anyone else we could have taken with the 2nd rounder year, could be the "cost" of obtaining McNabb and only having a QB upgrade for 3 season.

I still cannot fathom why the hell you brought the rest of them when I was just referring to McNabb and Brown as not worth the cost. Is Jared Veldheer that repugnant to you? Oakland runs a ZBS and he's already seeing action.

I think I heard yesterday going into yesterday's game we ranked 17th in the NFL with 30 missed tackles, Titans were #1 with 50

When Rocky whiffed on that first drive trying to tackle Jacobs...I had a bad feeling. It was so frustrating to see that performance yesterday almost exactly a year after a game (against the same Giants) that symbolized years of franchise ineptitude, only to see us put up such a sad effort once again. I'd like to think we can't get lower than that, but I thought the same thing in 2009

That sounds about right. Some of the missed tackles have been huge, maybe most of them for that matter, leading to big plays. We got used to being such a fundamentally sound defense for the most part under GW & Blache, that to see such poor tackling now makes it seem much worse.

I agree that it just looked like the effort wasn't there in the beginning, even Fletcher didn't seem himself.

Right. So all we have to do is get Orakpo, Haynesworth, Golston, and Carter back up at the front four, with McIntosh, Fletcher, and Blades or Wilson at linebacker -- then we can sit back and watch the magical defensive turn-around.

This team just isn't as good as you think it is.Considering that Orakpo was stuffed into a 4-3 OLB role last year, Landry sucked major balls, and that Blache held them back in 1000 way--one of them being making Landry sucking major balls--, that line and D would actually be performing better than what they did in 2009. Seriously, there has to be someone from a D guru tree that knows how to run a 4-3 better than Blache.

It seems like you're assuming Blache's philosophy is the end-all be-all of 4-3 philosophies.

And Buffalo started magically playing better once they scrapped the 3-4. Instead of coughing up 30+ points every week, they started having games in which they gave up less than 20 points, although they seem to struggle against elite playmakers.

I do think at this point you have to seriously question the talent on the defense. Rak is the only long term keeper in the front 7. Fletcher can still play so for a short term option he's a keeper as well. Other than that the talent and depth is paper thin.

We've run plenty of 4-3 looks this year and still manage to stink up the joint, so I think the scheme argument has to take a backseat to the talent argument.