Mcnabb appears to be done and he is the reason for this loss

I think this sends a horrible message to the team, Matty. Yeah, Shanny pulled Mac because he was stinking up the joint, but this has been an ongoing narrative with Shanny, which is more troubling than the fact that McNabb got yanked; that Shanahan is in charge, no questions asked. I get that the head coach is the leader and that the Redskins were in need of a culture change, but is this the change we wanted?

Just to be clear, I'm taking Shanahan over Zorn everyday of the week. Still I have my questions. How did Jim Zorn get more out of Fred Davis, serious talent, than Mike Shanahan? How did Jim Zorn get more production, albeit not very much, out of Devin Thomas than the vaunted Shanahan offensive system? For all the talk about the offensive line being worse off last year than this year, man, I don't know about that either. Save Trent Williams, it looks like we've taken a step backwards.

Shanahan took a huge risk by alienating his franchise quarterback and undermining future contract negotiations. Donovan looked off yesterday, in fact he's looked off the past three weeks. My biggest fear is that this may breach the relationship and that we're about to see yet another second round pick and the next 3-4 years flushed down the toilet.

By the way, Kyle Shanahan has been underwhelming thus far.

This is absolutely the change we needed. In fact I'm kinda baffled that we're even having this discussion.

I've got zero issues with Shanahan being in complete control. Do we even need to bring up the way it was before?

I don't necessarily agree with benching McNabb, but at the same time I'm more than willing to admit I don't have all the facts necessary to properly judge it. As an outsider it's easy to blast the move, but Shanahan obviously had his reasons and I'm sure we'll never know what they were exactly.

The only reason Zorn got anything out of Davis was because Cooley went down. Remember that Davis had issues picking up his offense, and he's reportedly had similar issues picking up this one too.

First of all, I didn't agree with Shanahan's decision to pull McNabb, I think it was a stupid move.

Second of all, there are a lot of factors as to why the Redskins lost yesterday and haven't been as exciting to watch on offense as what we had hoped. You would had to have been deaf, dumb, and blind not to see how horrible the OL played yesterday. And it hasn't been just yesterday. That group has been declining the past few weeks. Rebach needs to be replaced, and Stephon Heyer is trash. Honestly, the only guy on the front line that is worth staying is Trent Williams.

Thirdly, we are down to Williams in the backfield? A rookie? Our third string RB? While I am very high on Torrain, we really miss Portis' pass protection! I would say that Clinton Portis is probably the best pass blocking RB in the game.

Fourthly, Not sure why Kyle Shanahan isn't going max protection (maybe he just doesn't feel like he has the personnel to do it) but it seems to me that it would be in the best interest to go max protect and switch to a shorter passing game...something that Donovan was used to in Philly. Maybe they will work on this during the bye? I think Kyle can be a great offensive mind, but he's calling some boneheaded plays too.

Fifthly, dumb stupid penalties and mistakes at the wrong time. I would say more times than not, despite the offensive woes this team has been having, the team beats themselves. The penalty on the field goal try, the holding penalties, the false starts, etc....all penalties that have to do with playing undisciplined. I can understand having to hold every now and then (with hopes of getting away with it) to keep from your QB getting killed, but that isn't always the case with these calls.

Sixth, I really have to give praise and chastisement of the defense. They play really solid and they are starting to make big plays. Having a plus ratio in turnovers is awesome, but they just can't seem to come up with the big play when they need it the most. How can a second year QB throw a pass to a double covered WR in the end zone on fourth down? However, overall, the defense has looked pretty solid and I think they will continue to improve.

Lastly (I know, thank God, right?) Donavon McNabb. I understand that he is learning a new system, but it doesn't matter what system you are in. You see a wide open receiver, you throw it to him. He's been overthrowing and under throwing wide open guys every game. So many times he could have hit a quick home run strike and he would miss the WR's. That is on McNabb. Has nothing to do with pass protection or a new scheme. He's a pro bowl player and I don't believe that this system is so different that he doesn't know it by now. I expect him to make a few mistakes, but please don't talk about it being a new system. Either those Philly fans were right about McNabb, or there is some other underlying issue that we have not been made aware of. But, I will say, benching McNabb yesterday was stupid. You live and die by him, he's your QB for the long haul. No QB is going to win you very many games behind that OL right now. Those are just facts. Tom Brady would be like Ryan Leaf behind this OL right now. So, don't put all of the blame on DM. At the same time, don't think he gets a free pass either. He has just as much work to do as everybody else on the team.

Right now, you win and lose as a team. And the Redskins are finding ways to lose as a team. Eliminate those stupid mistakes and that alone can take you quite far. I'm just hoping KS will come up with some quicker modification of the offense while our OL is trash.

All other discussions about whether or not it's specifically his fault or his being benched aside, I think everyone can agree that McNabb has looked like shit this year with the exception of the Houston game.

My growing problem with Mike Shanahan, a fine coach in his own right, is that he seems so inflexible. I remember a few years back, Tom Couglin had this bad ass approach. Fining guys left and right, benching players, all sorts of shit. The players didn't to it too kindly and it affected their record. The following season he eased up a bit and eventually the Giants went on to win a Super Bowl. At the beginning of the season Andy Reid was married to Kevin Kolb as the future of the franchise, a couple of weeks later he had to rethink that and let Michael Vick be Michael Vick.

I just don't see that type of introspection with this regime and I don't think you can get a team to a championship in this day and age with that type of coaching philosophy.

Funny, I'm bitching about Shanny in a McNabb thread. LOL

I think the breakdown Tim Ryan did during the game outlining the difference between this offense and Philly's was very good. In Philly McNabb read short to long in his progressions, here it's the opposite. In Philly it was all about short quick throws, here the plays take a lot longer to develop.

Yes he's had plenty of bad throws that you can't blame on the system, but you can definitely see he's not comfortable out there, so like it or not, the system "excuse" is a very valid one in my book.

My growing problem with Mike Shanahan, a fine coach in his own right, is that he seems so inflexible. I remember a few years back, Tom Couglin had this bad ass approach. Fining guys left and right, benching players, all sorts of shit. The players didn't to it too kindly and it affected their record. The following season he eased up a bit and eventually the Giants went on to win a Super Bowl. At the beginning of the season Andy Reid was married to Kevin Kolb as the future of the franchise, a couple of weeks later he had to rethink that and let Michael Vick be Michael Vick.

I just don't see that type of introspection with this regime and I don't think you can get a team to a championship in this day and age with that type of coaching philosophy.

Funny, I'm bitching about Shanny in a McNabb thread. LOL

Coughlin is still a hard ass and never stopped being one IMO -- the team just finally submitted (and would actually show up on time to meetings and whatnot) and they won a SB. Belichick won 3 SBs with that attitude. Shanahan won 2 SBs with that attitude. The list goes on, and these guys didn't learn what they know from just any old place or person.

My growing problem with Mike Shanahan, a fine coach in his own right, is that he seems so inflexible. I remember a few years back, Tom Couglin had this bad ass approach. Fining guys left and right, benching players, all sorts of shit. The players didn't to it too kindly and it affected their record. The following season he eased up a bit and eventually the Giants went on to win a Super Bowl. At the beginning of the season Andy Reid was married to Kevin Kolb as the future of the franchise, a couple of weeks later he had to rethink that and let Michael Vick be Michael Vick.

I just don't see that type of introspection with this regime and I don't think you can get a team to a championship in this day and age with that type of coaching philosophy.

Funny, I'm bitching about Shanny in a McNabb thread. LOL

Shanahan is nowhere near the hard ass that Coughlin used to be, or even is now. I really don't see the comparison. Shanahan is known as being a players coach.

But, I will say, benching McNabb yesterday was stupid. You live and die by him, he's your QB for the long haul. No QB is going to win you very many games behind that OL right now.



Gotta disagree with this. Who says he's our QB for the long haul? He's played like garbage this year. He's only under contract through the end of this year. There's a very uncertain labor situation going into next year. He's 34 years old right now. Looking at all of that information, why would you declare him "here for the long haul?"

The reason is that we gave up a 2nd round pick and that he "used" to be good when he played for the Eagles. The problem with that reasoning is that you can't worry about that 2nd rounder, it's already gone and it's not coming back. Compounding the mistake by re-signing a guy who is a bad fit in this offense makes no sense at this point. You really have to look at the situation as a "what is" not a "what should/could/would be." McNabb has been a below average qb this year. That's what he is RIGHT NOW. If that changes before the end of the year, great. But if not, we'll move forward with someone new. Dude's been here 6 months, we're not committed to anyone for the "long haul" yet.

Also... we're a .500 ball club at the bye, and we've been winning in spite of our offense. The defense is handling the transition to the 3-4 better than we could have expected, especially given the lack of ideal personnel with which to run it. Special teams has been a huge improvement. Things could be much worse.

Gotta disagree with this. Who says he's our QB for the long haul? He's played like garbage this year. He's only under contract through the end of this year. There's a very uncertain labor situation going into next year. He's 34 years old right now. Looking at all of that information, why would you declare him "here for the long haul?"

The reason is that we gave up a 2nd round pick and that he "used" to be good when he played for the Eagles. The problem with that reasoning is that you can't worry about that 2nd rounder, it's already gone and it's not coming back. Compounding the mistake by re-signing a guy who is a bad fit in this offense makes no sense at this point. You really have to look at the situation as a "what is" not a "what should/could/would be." McNabb has been a below average qb this year. That's what he is RIGHT NOW. If that changes before the end of the year, great. But if not, we'll move forward with someone new. Dude's been here 6 months, we're not committed to anyone for the "long haul" yet.

Also... we're a .500 ball club at the bye, and we've been winning in spite of our offense. Things could be much worse.

If anything we should be pretty damn happy we didn't give him a long term deal the second he walked in the door. We've got an easy out with him if things don't turn around. Sure it would suck to lose those picks, but thankfully we're not tied down with him.

So do you buy Shanahan's reasoning that Grossman knows the 2 minute offense better?

I buy it. And it's troubling. I mentioned earlier in this thread the fact that McNabb hasn't had to learn a new offensive system since his rookie year over a decade ago. Can't teach an old dog.... I dunno. But he's obviously having a tough time grasping the offense- reportedly tougher than the Shanahan's expected. Couple that with weak receivers, a weak line, and 2nd-3rd string type RBs. Well, there you go. Our offense is pretty bad.

Like you said- he and Kyle need to lock themselves in a room together during the bye and get on the same page.