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JoeRedskin 10-05-2010, 11:00 AM If we are talking just Brady/Manning - I think that is going to be one debated for a looooongggg time. Would Brady have succeeded in the Colts offense? I am thinking yes. What would Belicheck have done with Manning?
I think Manning is the better QB of the two BUT, if I was starting a team, I think I would take Brady. Certainly the Brady of 2 to 3 years ago.
Manning is such a good QB that, like Marino before him, the offense tends to get modelled around him. It's not that he is a "Me First" guy, it's just that he's so good that he can't help but be the team's focus. Particularly now in the salary cap era, other parts of the team suffer a little. When you play Indi, if you "solve" Peyton, you win. While true to a certain degree and more so recently, "solving" Brady didn't necessarily get you a win (Matt Cassell anyone?). For the last 5 years or so, teams didn't so much play "the Colts" as much as they played Peyton (figuratively speaking of course).
But as Smoot said, we're just lucky to see them both play.
skinsfan69 10-05-2010, 11:11 AM So you're going to disregard all of his other stats and accomplishments because of turnovers?
Favre's INT% isn't that crazy. 3.3%.
Here are some others:
Marino: 3.0
Elway: 3.1
P. Manning: 2.7
Yeah but he always seems to throw one at the worst possible time, so for that reason I don't put him there with the all time greats.
JoeRedskin 10-05-2010, 11:24 AM Also, something from a more historic perspective, and based on GTripp's comments about Brady as a system QB -
In some respects there seems to be a progression of the "Really Good/Great QB Meets Innovative System" behind the much of the Best Ever debate.
Luckman/T-Formation; Otto Graham/Paul Brown's Innovations; Montana/West Coast Offense; Brady/Spread Offense.
These QB's seem to follow naturally from the former and become innovator's in their own right. Their careers represent the game's evolution in microcosm. In each case, the Coach (Halas, Brown, Walsh, Belichick) was almost as famous as the QB.
On the other hand, there are some QB's who stood outside of any coach or recognziable "system": Baugh, Unitas, Marino, Manning.
Would Luckman, Graham, Montana or Brady be as successful outside their particular system? Would Baugh, Unitas, Marino or Manning be as successful if they were forced to tailor their playing to a particular system (Johnny "Field General" U playing for Paul "I call the plays" Brown? I don't think so).
skinsfaninok 10-05-2010, 11:41 AM So you're going to disregard all of his other stats and accomplishments because of turnovers?
Favre's INT% isn't that crazy. 3.3%.
Here are some others:
Marino: 3.0
Elway: 3.1
P. Manning: 2.7
Favre is in the top 10 of all time imo, Maybe top 5.
NYCskinfan82 10-05-2010, 11:56 AM I'd say his team stole the other teams OF & DF signs and got caught that helps out alot, yes he has great talent but could he have won without stealing signs that's the question I need to have answered.
Ruhskins 10-05-2010, 12:20 PM I guess I may have exaggerated a bit when saying that the Colts are in a decline (so no need to get your panties in a bunch). But, they are not as dominant as they were before...HOWEVER, I don't think any team is right now. It seems that teams are on and off from week to week, and no team is looking consistently dominant..
I do know that the Colts had offensive line issues in the offseason, and their defense is not playing well. Now, a poor defense has never affected the Colts, and Manning is elite enough to overcome any offensive line deficiencies. I do think the Texans will give the Colts a run for their money though.
It's hard to put Manning above Brady and vice versa though.
CRedskinsRule 10-05-2010, 12:28 PM I'd say his team stole the other teams OF & DF signs and got caught that helps out alot, yes he has great talent but could he have won without stealing signs that's the question I need to have answered.
I think the 18-1 season after it was exposed would have put to rest any questions about whether they can win without extra film.
firstdown 10-05-2010, 12:39 PM You have to define greatest -- if it is terms of winning, then it's Brady. If it's in terms of being a quarterback, I think the edge goes to either Manning or Marino. Last year, with the number 32 run game, Peyton took the Colts to the SB while posting another season of off-the-chart numbers.
I think that last season solidified why Manning is better than Brady just in terms of great quarterback play.
Marino? I Have so many over top of him just because they could lead their team to the big dance and won. All those stats don't mean shit without a ring when talking QB's.
Fan033 10-05-2010, 12:43 PM Joe Montana - Give me Joe when the game's on the line and the seconds are ticking away on the clock!
I really think Super Bowls are so overrated when it comes to evaluating QBs. We never hold other positions to that same standard. There are so many factors that go into winning Super Bowls, and QBs get far too much credit for winning them.
Marino was definitely one of the top QBs ever, and as far as pure passers go he might be tops.
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