It's not Joe's team yet

I am firm believer that this team will have Coach Gibb's mark, personality, stamp, what have you, till next year. I also believe that Gibb's can be considered a first year coach, because of his long absence, regardless of his past experience. 12 years is along time.

I am the first to admit, I was thinking playoffs this year, but its obvious Coach Gibbs needs time to mold this team.

These elite coaches all did bad their first year with their new team

D. Vermeil - 5-11 (Rams)
Billick - 8-8
Belichick - 5-11 (Pats)
Gruden - 8-8 (Oakland)
Reid - 5-11

4 out of those 5 coaches have won a super bowl within the last 5 years, and I hate to say it, but Filthadelphia is well on there way...

One thing is, the Redskins have a lot of talent that those teams did not have when the new coach took over.

That being said, I agree with you that he'll turn things around. I expect another fairly busy offseason.

Yeah you're right and what gets me is how the media has said that the game has passed Gibbs by and this is a "young mans" sport. Of course Bradshaw said this so naturally you have to take it with a grain of salt..but still if this is true then why would the media disregard the success that Vermeil had after his first year back....knowning that he had been away from the NFL just as long if not longer than Gibbs and he's OLDER than Joe Gibbs. To build a true playoff Super Bowl contender team that is consistantly at that level each year..it takes awhile and I suppose thinking this team would be an instant success is probably a bit unfair to Gibbs. This team has had at least 11 years of misery (one good playoff year), and it takes time to undo over a decade's worth of losing.

This year is proving that, yeah, maybe the game has past Gibbs by. But that does not mean he cannot catch up and I truly believe that he will!
Even though they are losing, the attitude of this team is different this year. The players actually respect and want to play for the coaches. That has not really happened with this team for any coach since, well, Joe Gibbs. That is the first step.

Daseal, I disagree about another busy offseason. I think the main thing we need is stability. Get the majority of the players used to playing together, in the same system. Yeah, of course there will be some changes, as with every team, but I don't expect us to "win" in the offseason again, and I will be very happy if we don't.

SkinsRock, I hope you're right. I just think Gibbs is going to clean house and get rid of the guys he's not high on, just hope he doesn't deystroy our cap in the process.

there is one thing that puzzels me about the thought that the "game has past gibbs by". that is, that if you agree the game has past him by, than does that also mean the '92 and '87 teams wouldn't win if we had those identical teams right now. I think they would win, it's the make-up of the team and the knowlege the coach has of those players that makes it possible for a team to win. you can't grow a team over night and you can't learn the strengths and weekness in one game. gibbs will win he just has to go through some growing pains first.

that was a reply to brashaw, i guess. what does every one think about that thought?

I really think that older teams simply didn't have what new teams have. I'd love to see it happen though!

Does anyone here think we wouldn't have between 2 and 4 more wins, this year, if ramsey had started training camp as the first stringer? I honestly believe in my heart of hearts that we would easily be 6-3 at this point. and that, my friends, is why I am optimistic for next year.

Because otherwise, if its the team that's bad, there isn't reason for optimism, imo.

I really think that older teams simply didn't have what new teams have.

What do you mean?